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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2011 : 13:10:29 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by H. Humbert |
| Yes, because the role of the press in this country should be as for-profit entertainment. |
Well the "press" that you are relying on for your information for your posts is playing their role to a tee because their links and conclusions have proved to be nothing more than comedy. Where are you getting your media, TV Land? Besides Air America was never considered media. They fell into the comedy catagory.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 13:11:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Bill scott
That's capitalism and the free market for ya. Demand can be turned into profits and no demand usually equals no profits. Just as it should be.
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Yes, because the role of the press in this country should be as for-profit entertainment. 
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Yeah. It used to be that news departments were independent of network owners and networks often took a loss because it was a matter of prestige to have a high level of journalistic integrity. Those days are sadly gone.
Fox really broke the mold by becoming not just a station that leans is a direction, but a propaganda arm of one political party and takes its orders from the top. That's well documented and they don't even deny it.
MSNBC has a few shows that are liberal, but they are qualitatively different because they don't get their orders from the top. And while they do get some things wrong, there is a lot more fact checking and a lot less just making shit up than there is on Fox.
Don't believe me? Just follow factcheck.org. They are non partisan.
Also, Fox is on 24/7 doing their thing. The liberals on MSNBC only have a few nightly shows, and they are off completely on the weekends.
As for talk radio, I guess fear sells, and that's the main message from all of those conservative talk show hosts. They sell fear...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 13:39:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
...censorship thinly cloaked and disguised as the "fairness" doctrine. |
Enforcing equal time is "censorship?" What color is the sky on your planet?| Let it stand on it's on two feet, if it can. |
So good political ideas must meet market demands, in your mind. I guess if your goal is mob rule, instead of a constitutional republic based on an informed citizenry, that's one way to go about getting it.| Hahaha! Did you see Olberman frothing and foaming at the mouth in his ramblings, all before the barrel of the gun had evened cooled down? |
No, I didn't see him. Can I get a link to a transcript where he says that Loughner's actions mean that conservatives are murderous lunatics?
Also:| So when Abdul shoots 14 people with a gun at Fort Hood he was immediately linked to Palin as well, right? |
Since the Fort Hood shootings were five months before the start of Palin's "Don't Retreat, Instead RELOAD" campaign, people would have to have been precognitive to had made such a connection.
Besides, "Sarah Palin" can be re-arranged to read "Sharia Plan." That demonstrates her to be one of the American Taliban, right? Riiight?!
Oh, and I wouldn't trust Pima college kids to know a "left wing pothead" from a chicken-wing popsicle, given what they've said in interviews about his actions in class. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 13:40:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
As for talk radio, I guess fear sells, and that's the main message from all of those conservative talk show hosts. They sell fear... |
How about this joker selling fear from the NY times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/opinion/11herbert.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
| If we want to reverse the flood tide of killing in this country, we’ll have to do a hell of a lot more than bad-mouth a few sorry politicians and lame-brained talking heads. |
| Without those very tough steps, the murder of the innocents by the tens of thousands will most assuredly continue. |
What rising tide in killings? Absolutly no truth in what he claims but he is selling fear as well. In 1993 there was 24,530 murders in the US. In 2010 there was 15,241 murders. I ask again what rising tide. The murders have gone down as the so called vitriol has gone up.
Both sides sell fear!!!!!!!
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 13:47:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
[i]Originally posted by filthy
I read the article that called him a "leftwing pothead." That is nothing but ancedote and worth about as much as Limbaugh's frothing, lie-laced blather. |
So now that it comes out that he is being described as a "left wing pothead" by his friends and classmates you shift your rant to Rush Limbaugh, as if it's his fault the atheist left wing pothead blew a gasket?!?!?!
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The article I read said: A classmate. Singular. It is not known if the classmate was a little, rightwing prick but it seems possible.
| I find it humorous that he's being called an atheist with no citation. |
| I never called him an atheist with no citation. I just said he was an atheist, period, based on him saying so himself. |
Citation, please.
| And as for the Ft. Hood shootings, they too, were carried out by a madman and his religion doesn't matter. There are plenty of Christian madmen who have done the same, and worse. It simply points up the evils of religion. |
| Well than using your logic these shootings, by an "atheistic left wing pothead", simply point up the evils of left wing atheism. |
Then I must ask; why is it that there are such a low percentage of atheists in prison? There are not many of us, but blood should be flowing like rotted garbage out of Back's/Limbaugh's/Palin's/Savage's collective mouth. And I'd like to know the last time you heard of an atheistic spree murderer? I'm sure it's happened, but I've not heard of any, and I haven't gotten around to it, myself.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 13:48:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Kil
As for talk radio, I guess fear sells, and that's the main message from all of those conservative talk show hosts. They sell fear... |
How about this joker selling fear from the NY times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/opinion/11herbert.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
| If we want to reverse the flood tide of killing in this country, we’ll have to do a hell of a lot more than bad-mouth a few sorry politicians and lame-brained talking heads. |
| Without those very tough steps, the murder of the innocents by the tens of thousands will most assuredly continue. |
What rising tide in killings? Absolutly no truth in what he claims but he is selling fear as well. In 1993 there was 24,530 murders in the US. In 2010 there was 15,241 murders. I ask again what rising tide. The murders have gone down as the so called vitriol has gone up.
Both sides sell fear!!!!!!!
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Robb. I'm sure you can find an example, or even a few of them from the left. But the sheer volume of lies and fear just can't be matched from what is coming out of the right. That's why I suggested you look at factcheck.org.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 14:02:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Bill scott
That's capitalism and the free market for ya. Demand can be turned into profits and no demand usually equals no profits. Just as it should be.
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Yes, because the role of the press in this country should be as for-profit entertainment.
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Yeah. It used to be that news departments were independent of network owners and networks often took a loss because it was a matter of prestige to have a high level of journalistic integrity. Those days are sadly gone.
Fox really broke the mold by becoming not just a station that leans is a direction, but a propaganda arm of one political party and takes its orders from the top. That's well documented and they don't even deny it.
MSNBC has a few shows that are liberal, but they are qualitatively different because they don't get their orders from the top. And while they do get some things wrong, there is a lot more fact checking and a lot less just making shit up than there is on Fox.
Don't believe me? Just follow factcheck.org. They are non partisan.
Also, Fox is on 24/7 doing their thing. The liberals on MSNBC only have a few nightly shows, and they are off completely on the weekends.
As for talk radio, I guess fear sells, and that's the main message from all of those conservative talk show hosts. They sell fear...
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Look dude until your ready to look into the mirror than this is a circular conversation. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge any left wing bias in the media anywhere, other than maybe just a dab from MSNBC, is just laughable. I mean an "atheistic left wing pothead" has just shot and killed 6 people and the result is that you and others can't stop rambling on and on about your loathing of Fox News or the violent rhetoric of right wing conservatives. I mean if an atheistic left wing pothead blowing away 6 people in cold blood does not get you off your soapbox, even for one day, than I am beginning to think that nothing ever will. It's almost as if your an ideologue who can't see the forest through the trees. An atheistic left wing pothead blows away 6 people in cold blood and by default your ranting and raving about Fox News and their bias.
I know, and understand, that you guys miss and long for the good old days when Cronkite, Blather and Jennings ruled the airwaves, but those days are long gone my friend. They have many competing networks and blogs now and as they, and their devotes, realize that their market share and relevance is quickly fading they lash out in an attempt to slander those who are taking away their market and influence that they once took for granted. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2011 : 14:17:56 [Permalink]
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Me, I can manage two things at once. I can hate that this incident happened as well as it's perpetrator, and at the same time loath and despise FOX "news" and the rest of the rightwing gasbags.
Try it; it's easy....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 14:31:27 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Enforcing equal time is "censorship?" What color is the sky on your planet? |
In a free market forcing "equal" time is censorship. What color is the sky on your planet where free market means propping up failing entities with other people's money? You guys already have tax payer funded NPR.
| So good political ideas must meet market demands, |
Nighty ramblings of commentators with shows on politics must meet market demands, yes, or they fade away! Just ask the commontators at Air America. You don't get a free show on TV just because nobody wants to listen to your point of view while some other guy is cleaning up with his show. If your show sucks and can't make it in the free market than make it better or die with the rest.
| in your mind. I guess if your goal is mob rule, instead of a constitutional republic based on an informed citizenry, that's one way to go about getting it. |
Nice try. The free market allows anyone who wants to produce a political show with commentary to do so. It does not guartee that they will succeed. Demand makes this decision. Just because your show sucks and someone else's show does not this is fair. Make a better show if you don't like it. If your looking to push political ideas than run for office. The free market allows you to do this as well. Your just pissed cause none of this liberal garbage has succeded in the free market and so you scream about wanting fairness. That is like yelling "unfair" at the baseball coach because your teammate hit more home runs than you. Practice your swing, quit crying and maybe you can hit some more homers.
He is the king of the blowhards and considers himself a liberal.
| Since the Fort Hood shootings were five months before the start of Palin's "Don't Retreat, Instead RELOAD" campaign, people would have to have been precognitive to had made such a connection. |
Right, so we can just say a Muslim killed the 14 people and be done with all this other nonsense.
| Besides, "Sarah Palin" can be re-arranged to read "Sharia Plan." That demonstrates her to be one of the American Taliban, right? Riiight?! |
I am sure HH's media source could make that leap.
| Oh, and I wouldn't trust Pima college kids to know a "left wing pothead" from a chicken-wing popsicle, given what they've said in interviews about his actions in class. |
I am sure you wouldn't having just called him a left winginger right after blowing 6 people away in cold blood. And even if so this still does not turn the story around and put the blame at Fox News or Rush L's doorstep, no matter how bad all the libs want it to. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 14:31:27 [Permalink]
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As we all know, reality has a clearly liberal bias.
Bill, just because the facts contradict your worldview, that doesn't mean that reporting those facts shows a left wing bias. FOX makes shit up, and if they repeat it enough times, it becomes fact. And you clowns laps it up like pathetic puppies, because it confirms what you want to think, not what is fact.
Witness the whole "Obama's trip to India is going to 200 mill a day, blah blah blah".
By the way, I love that now - because you've repeated it a couple times - that this guy is a "left wing atheist". Bill, you're simply making shit up. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 14:37:59 [Permalink]
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Robb:
The fact that you refuse to acknowledge any left wing bias in the media anywhere, other than maybe just a dab from MSNBC, is just laughable. |
I suppose it would be laughable if I were doing that. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 14:46:02 [Permalink]
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The thoughts of the Rude Pundit:
"Dear Right-Wingers: You Are All Muslims Now:
Oh, dear, sweet conservative Americans, how you must have shit yourself on Saturday when you heard that someone had shot up an event with a Democratic member of Congress in, of all goddamned places, Arizona. And, worse, a Representative who had voted in favor of health care reform, which you have demonized as nothing short of a resurrection of the Nazi Party. It must have been awful for so many conservatives, thinking, praying, "Please, please, please, don’t let it be some Tea Party dick who says he did it because Glenn Beck told him to. Don’t let it be someone who wants to fuck Sarah Palin and thinks that if he starts taking out her congressional crosshaired targets, he’ll get into her pants."
How you must have heaved in relief when you saw that it would be quite easy to portray Jared Lee Loughner as a raving psychopath, an effort that’s helped a great deal by the apparent truth, which is that Jared Lee Loughner is a raving psychopath. Yeah, he's a psychopath whose mad rantings are heavily peppered with an insouciant flavor of Beck or Ron Paul or loony conspiracy theory nutsiness, but a psychopath just the same.
Now, ah, yes, now, lovely right-wingers, you could defend yourself. You could work yourselves into a huff about how unjustly you were accused of driving this obviously disturbed individual into an act of calculated, cold-blooded violence. But that's because you're sitting there in your shit-filled underpants, thinking, "I don't believe in violence. I don't approve this. I hope the government doesn't try to crack down on us."
So, welcome, assholes, because you are Muslim now.
How does it feel to stand in Muslim shoes today? Because, right now, yes, you are being treated like suspects. You are being treated like you are guilty of the crimes that are committed by the deranged in your number. Sure, you may think, you can spout all the blood-filled, gun-toting, war-flogging rhetoric you want against citizens of your own country. But those are just words, you know? You can’t, you know, be held accountable for the actions of a few. And, gosh, it’s just wrong to lump you all together, to stereotype you all as criminals in waiting. Like, you know, you have done with Muslims since September 11, 2001.
Here's the deal, though. The vast, vast, vast majority of Muslims decry not only acts of violence, but the rhetoric of it, too. The vast, vast, vast majority of right-wingers not only stay silent as conservatives shoot at targets with their opponents' names or initials on them, talk about revolution and violence, and accuse Democrats of getting ready to put Americans in forced health care camps. No, you embrace your extremist assholes and anoint them your idiot queen.
How will you live with yourselves in the future? Look, heated, vicious rhetoric is part of the political game. But, frankly, there’s a bit of difference between saying that you’re going to "target" an opponent and saying that there might have to be "Second Amendment solutions" to the nation’s problems. Let's not do the bullshit dance of false equivalence. While there was a period of time when the left was violent (which was met by officially-sanctioned violence by the government), in the last couple of decades, it hasn't been the left shooting shit up. It wasn't the left who let the assault weapons ban lapse. It wasn't the left that made access to guns as easy as a McDonald's drive-thru. It wasn't the left that cried "Fascism" to background checks for someone who wants to own a fucking machine gun. It wasn't the left that supported preemptive war and violence against individuals as solutions to our nation's problems. Time to welcome your chickens home, conservatives. Open your filthy arms.
So, yeah, yeah, cowering motherfuckers, Jared Lee Loughner was monkeyfuck insane. He wandered in the fringes of conspiracy theories and wallowed in the stinking pit of his own mad brain fluids. You can comfort yourselves and have a shaky drink to that.
But you know what, you ridiculous worms? At the end of the day, the Rude Pundit supports your right to say your stupid shit. And it's ironic that Giffords read the First Amendment during the House's big show last week of reading the Constitution. Free speech ain't a free pass. It never, ever comes without responsibility. You wanna spout crazy, violent shit? You wanna talk about end times and revolution, Glenn Beck? Then man up and know that some people will take you seriously, even if you are just a joke."
You want lefty rhertoric, Bill, there's some. Now show me the lies that compare with the right's. Show me the threats.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 15:53:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
In a free market forcing "equal" time is censorship. |
Just adding "free market" to what you said the first time doesn't explain how it is censorship.| What color is the sky on your planet where free market means propping up failing entities with other people's money? |
That has nothing to do with censorship. And you're the one who brought up the term "free market," not me. I'm no fan of squealing "free market!" as if it's a solution to any particular problem. Besides which, the broadcast companies don't compete in a free market to begin with. To make a free-market objection to the Fairness Doctrine, you'll have to first pass laws to eliminate the FCC and all other broadcasting regulation.| You guys already have tax payer funded NPR. |
NPR gets a whopping 1.5% of its funding from competitive government grants. It hasn't been funded directly by the government for over 20 years. And it provides a free pulpit to conservatives like David Frum, so it's not exactly the bastion of liberalism you would think it is.| So good political ideas must meet market demands, |
Nighty ramblings of commentators with shows on politics must meet market demands, yes, or they fade away! Just ask the commontators at Air America. You don't get a free show on TV just because nobody wants to listen to your point of view while some other guy is cleaning up with his show. If your show sucks and can't make it in the free market than make it better or die with the rest. |
But that's not what the Fairness Doctrine was about.| Nice try. The free market allows anyone who wants to produce a political show with commentary to do so. It does not guartee that they will succeed. Demand makes this decision. Just because your show sucks and someone else's show does not this is fair. Make a better show if you don't like it. If your looking to push political ideas than run for office. The free market allows you to do this as well. Your just pissed cause none of this liberal garbage has succeded in the free market and so you scream about wanting fairness. That is like yelling "unfair" at the baseball coach because your teammate hit more home runs than you. Practice your swing, quit crying and maybe you can hit some more homers. |
This is free-marketeering run amok. Insisting that the ideas for how we run our country's government live or die as the market allows means that only popular ideas will get wide exposure, and popular ideas about how we should govern are not necessarily good ideas. For example, lynch mobs and witch hunts are popular, but not good. National health care is massively unpopular, but good.| He is the king of the blowhards and considers himself a liberal. |
Then he'd be king of the liberal blowhards, wouldn't he? Rush is obviously king of the conservative blowhards, and has the ratings to prove it. Or is Beck overtaking him?| Right, so we can just say a Muslim killed the 14 people and be done with all this other nonsense. |
What does that have to do with the violent rhetoric being spewed by today's conservative leaders?| Oh, and I wouldn't trust Pima college kids to know a "left wing pothead" from a chicken-wing popsicle, given what they've said in interviews about his actions in class. |
I am sure you wouldn't having just called him a left winginger right after blowing 6 people away in cold blood. |
That response doesn't make any sense. Better go check the expiration date on your meds, Bill.| And even if so this still does not turn the story around and put the blame at Fox News or Rush L's doorstep, no matter how bad all the libs want it to. |
I don't know of anyone who is suggesting they should get the blame. They should take some small bit of it for contributing to an environment in which transparently urging violence to meet petty political goals is seen as reasonable, but they didn't cause Loughney's apparent psychoses. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 16:36:01 [Permalink]
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As might be expected, the scumbags are crawling out of their cesspools.
Westboro hate church to picket funerals of Arizona shooting victims
By David Edwards
Tuesday, January 11th, 2011 -- 11:58 am
People in Arizona are uniting with lawmakers to counter attempts by the infamous Westboro Baptist Church to get attention for their anti-abortion views by picketing the funeral of 9-year-old Christina Taylor Green and others killed in Saturday's mass shooting.
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These people aren't even human; they're an inferior species of poisonous vermiform.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 18:44:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
...an atheistic left wing pothead... |
Apparently, the last two claims come from what Loughner was like four or five years ago, in high school. The fact that he's now liking Ayn Rand and Mein Kampf indicate there's been some changes in his outlook since his teen-age hippie phase. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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I hope these aren't the first shots in a civil war
