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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 03/01/2011 : 12:37:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
It is very easy to ask intelligent questions about my account. |
How can we stop the aliens from kidnapping and terrorizing our citizens?
How can we duplicate their technologies for travel? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 12:38:49 [Permalink]
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As far as intelligent questions are concerned, I don't see where they are necessary. As was pointed out after your first story and was my impression, these seem like reoccurring vivid dreams.
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Moakley. Four and sometimes FIVE PEOPLE sharing the experience of the same events, seen from four different viewpoints. Your vivid dreams scenario just fell to the ground.
Now add to that multiple witnesses. Friends and neighbors who, on different occasions were witness to these ships hovering over our house at the time of the events. So much for your 'vivid dreams' excuse. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 13:03:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
The DUDE lies again...I gave him his last chance to stop lying.
The problem, as you have been told repeatedly, is that it is impossible to ask intelligent questions about your (a story you insist is true) unless you provide a way for us to distinguish between your story and fiction.
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That, folks, is a LIE. It is very easy to ask intelligent questions about my account.
| You clearly don't understand this. |
Sorry dude, but you have to stop lying. There is nothing stopping you from asking intelligent questions, several others in here have had no problem asking intelligent questions.
| So now we can add delusional to arrogant and belligerant. Not delusional because you insist your fairy tale is true, but because you insist that there are no problems with it (which is fucking hilarious because you have previously pointed out an inconsistency in it yourself). |
First, it's spelled "belligerent", insults are always more effective when spelled correctly, otherwise you end up sounding uneducated.
I guess you weren't much of a student in school, and I'm certain you don't hold any degrees, post-grad or under-grad, simply because you display very poor reading comprehension skills. Let's make this clear yet again: There are no problems with my account, sorry. It's the truth, and I reported it quite accurately, and my account has never wavered once with any inconsistencies.
I was also quite up front in stating that some people may find the actions or behavior of the aliens themselves to be inconsistent. My account has always been consistent, but the actions of the aliens may not always make sense to us from our human point of view.
Can you understand that distinction? Apparently not. "Fucking hilarious" indeed.
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Oh no, I'm so scared, you gave me my last chance! What will I ever do now!?
Listen, you are a fucking amateur at this game. So much so that your attempt to insult me isn't even comical, its pathetic. Stop embarrassing yourself.
I find it interesting that you are willing to waste time trying to insult me though, while you hand-wave and ignore legit criticism of your fairy tale.
If your actual intent here in these forums is to inform people about your aliens, why waste your time with insults?
It is very clear that you do not comprehend some basic things. Your word will never be adequate to set your story apart from other fairy tales. Never. No one, not even bngbuckaroo, is going to believe you. Your delusion is interesting to him, and others, for different reasons though.
To me, and other pragmatists, you won't be anything but another sad little lunatic unless you can substantiate your claims. I don't care how many times you blather about truth (I already grant that you are telling the truth as informed by your memory, but that is inadequate) you will get nowhere until you step up to the plate with some evidence.
Since you repeatedly reject what I suggest would be adequate evidence, I'll ask you again: What mechanism can you provide to allow others to tell your story apart from other fairy tales.
So set your arrogance and belligerence aside, stop trying to engage in a flame contest (you are not capable), and answer my single question. (since you refuse to answer how many times you have been abducted and how old you were the last time)
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 13:48:51 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
| In my opinion, which is only provisionally held and subject to change in the event of the arrival of new evidence or argument through rational inquiry, |
I sincerely thank you, Dave, for that particular declaration. It is, by far, one of the most acceptable expressions that I have read from you during my time here on these forums. As per Kil's request, we may truly be making progress toward "moving on"| you are choosing to believe your own assessment of people based on nothing more than their writing style instead of what they have actually explained to you about their own attitudes towards knowledge. |
I seldom attempt to assess people in numeris because of the absence of personal contact. In my view, assessment of a person's attitude towards knowledge is possible by examination of both the content and the form of delivery of that content used by the (in this case) writer. To me, writing style can be an important component of the writer's "attitude", as you express it, toward the knowledge he/she is attempting to convey to others. Content can be rather easily fact-checked, but it is time consuming, and because all of us are seriously pressed for sufficient time, few people can take the time to verify the accuracy or truthfulness of much that is presented as "fact."
As you know, I subscribe to the global position that all knowledge is provisional, and even in its most refined form can only be truly understood in degrees of probability. Some here have asked for my mathematical evaluation of certain concepts (green fairies or other fantasticals) This is a misunderstanding of my position. No mathematician can compute a precise statistical probability of that which is affected by a very large number of variables. As to the probability of green fairies, etc., this form of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (or point of a needle, per Thomas Acquinas), dating back to the 16th century, can only be answered by "a fractional number very close to infinity."
I think that what I am trying to express here can be can only be seen as an abhorrence of absolutes. I feel that Reality, Knowledge, all of the grand generalizations and most, if not all, of the small specifics, should, properly, be expressed in conditional terms - because that is a more accurate expression of what Reality is. Reality may be absolute, but it is stochastic and our comprehension of it can only be approximate. One cannot, nor should not, attempt to mathematically define the statistical probability of any aspect of events subject to very large numbers of variables. However, I believe it is appropriate to speak in terms of probability such as "it is likely," or "probably" or "very little possibility exists", or ts" not "is" -- instead of definitive and declarative terms which imply, if not declare, absolute certainty.
So "writing style" to me is important. To me, style matters. My inference from a strongly declarative writing style, is... | closed mind, arrogant certainty, cannot be completely trustworthy because no allowance for possible error in understanding on behalf of the writer is evident from the manner of the presentation |
This may properly be seen as a form of arrogance on my part. But it does reflect considerable education, both academic and experiential. I have had a long and extremely varied life, and have had enough interaction with a wide variation of human beings to develop some judgment as to the base and the noble. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 13:51:41 [Permalink]
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Dave W asks : How can we stop the aliens from kidnapping and terrorizing our citizens?
How can we duplicate their technologies for travel? |
Let this be a lesson to Dude who said it was impossible to ask an intelligent question. Dave asks TWO of the big questions right here.
1.How do we stop them?
I wish I knew! Lol. I'm not being coy, Dave, I appreciate such a great question. We have discussed this ourselves many times. The aliens certainly have the ability to act at will for the most part.
You know how I prefer to discuss my own experiences rather than speculate on the experiences of others. But there are those who say they were there when treaties were entered into between the aliens and the US govt in which the aliens were given permission to abduct Americans in exchange for technological advances. Further, there are those who say that the aliens began abusing that permission very early on in the agreement, taking far more people that were agreed to, and not returning a great number of them. It seems the aliens were also revealing far less technology than was agreed too.
Yet, we may not want to stop the abductions, not for the big picture. It may be crucial to our survival as a species, from what I have been told by aliens.
I can go into detail on these points, but consider this a spoiler alert. Ask yourself if you really want to know. Now we are getting into the heavy stuff.
2.How do we duplicate their technologies for travel?
Well, we already have, to my knowledge. But who do you mean by "we"? A small faction of US military having back-engineered these ships from crashed alien vehicles that were retrieved? Yes. The US people given access to these technologies? No.
There have been many crashes and retrievals, as many as 4 ships retrieved during the Roswell/Corona flap, Kecksburg, Germany, Texas, Australia, Brazil, and even on Long Island in the early 1990s.
Col. Philip J Corso wrote in his book about being in charge of distributing alien technologies from crashed ships to various sectors of high-tech private industry in the 1950s
To link this issue to CURRENT news events, the US is trying right now to extradite a british man who hacked into us military computers, Gary McKinnon. What McKinnon uncovered were documents about the US having a fLEET of reverse-engineered alien technology ships, colloquially called "The Nebraska Navy", McKinnon even found the duty rosters and personnel files of these ships. The US wants to sentence him to life in prison.
But as I say, I prefer not to speculate, but I'd have to say I'm confident that a faction of our military has these technologies, at least to a limited extent.
thanks Dave W. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 14:44:22 [Permalink]
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You won't answer my question because you are incapable of answering it.
Now you are claiming that aliens have given you information. Surely this presents an entirely different set of opportunities for you to answer my question. There has to be something in there, in that info they have given you, that can be used to substantiate your fairy tale, let it make the transition from ridiculous nonsense to plausible?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 14:57:10 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
| All sarcasm aside, what Dave has said here is correct. |
I believe it is correct, but incomplete. See my reply to him above.| Yes, we do have different styles and we have even debated the effectiveness those differences openly on these forums. But we don't disagree on the tentative nature of all conclusions reached using the tools that skepticism provides us. |
I will take you at your word on that, with the possible exception of the "opinion" debate of some time back. However I read into much of what Dave writes a persuasion of certainty or absolutism that is anithematic to my nature. This can be correctly defined as his writing style, but as I elaborate on (above) to him, it speaks to a long developed inherent Pyrrhonistic wariness of people's authenticity in me - and that based on far too many years of interaction with tens of thousands of human beings in matters both large and small.
As I admitted to Dave, this may well be seen as arrogance or incivility on my part, similar to much that I accuse him of displaying. I am certain that we would both benefit from a higher degree of polish, refinement, restraint and particularly civility in our general discourse. That comment might even apply to others here on these boards besides Dave and myself.Well, it takes two to tango and a group to squaredance. It really depends on what kind of Forum you, Dave, and Atomic want to have. For my part, I am quite amenable to a contentious environment, but certainly would prefer more civility. I am certainly capable of heightening my awareness of my many flaws that are evident to others, particularly if such increased sensitivity and self-awareness is reciprocated. No competent thinker wants to be serially abused as Dave sees my interactions with him; and as Le Penseur sees Dave's and Dude's exhanges with him. I guess it's up to the Owners to lead, follow, or get out of the way!
Specifically, I think the Golden Rule could definitely have some use as a vehicle for progress here. in SFN |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 15:57:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
I sincerely thank you, Dave, for that particular declaration. It is, by far, one of the most acceptable expressions that I have read from you during my time here on these forums. |
To the best of my knowledge, which is only provisionally held and subject to change in the event of the arrival of new evidence or argument through rational inquiry, it's the same "declaration" I made to you three months ago, and many many times before then in different forms. To the best of my knowledge, which is only provisionally held and subject to change in the event of the arrival of new evidence or argument through rational inquiry, you require this disclaimer to be spelled out for each and every utterance, while I take it for granted. In my opinion, which is only provisionally held and subject to change in the event of the arrival of new evidence or argument through rational inquiry, the following two examples sentences are no different in meaning or tone:(A) To the best of my knowledge, which is only provisionally held and subject to change in the event of the arrival of new evidence or argument through rational inquiry, it is impossible for information-carrying entities or anything with a non-zero rest mass to be propelled beyond the speed of light within the medium of travel due to practical energy limitations and causal difficulties. And:(B) It's impossible to travel faster than light. In my opinion, which is only provisionally held and subject to change in the event of the arrival of new evidence or argument through rational inquiry, sentence (A) is merely clogged with a lot of boilerplate about the limits of knowledge and the standard physics context, all of which should be unnecessary to reiterate on a skeptics' forum in a thread in which the subject of discussion might be FTL travel, which makes sentence (B) much preferable, even given the ease of copy-and-paste. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 18:17:22 [Permalink]
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Dave....
Well, you are indeed a piece of work, Dave So much for moving on, I guess!
Did you even read the second half of my answer to you? |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 03/01/2011 18:40:14 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 18:36:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Dave....
Well, you are indeed a piece of work, Dave So much for moving on, I guess!
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Explain what part of Dave's patient explanation of his position you find to be intentionally provocative. Because right now, bngbuck, all I see is you getting huffy over absolutely nothing. In fact, a better man than you might have even apologized to Dave by this point for mischaracterizing his views for so long, but I doubt anyone familiar with your M.O. is going to hold their breath while waiting for that to happen.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 18:37:13 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
Looks like the hoot and holler phase is over. Maybe we can do something sensible now.
1. Where do these aliens come from? Could you identify anything specific about their place of origin?
2. Are the aliens with whom you had direct experience, or others, responsible for some, or many of the several million "UFO" reports over the last hundred and fifty years?
3. What is their purpose in extensively traveling through our atmosphere?
4. What is their purpose in abducting folks like you and your family?
5. Is the abduction random selection or selective targeting?
I hope you can respond to these few questions. I have many (40-50) more. The mods may not wish this thread to last that long, several folks have expressed their annoyance already. The inner cadre kind of directs the pack to a degree, and the thresd may be terminated. I would appreciate e-mail contact if this happens. Thanks,
Bill Buck
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 18:42:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Dave....
Well, you are indeed a piece of work, Dave So much for moving on, I guess! |
After over a year of your bizarre personal attacks on me, including characterizing my "view" of certain subjects in incredibly stupid ways, I saw here an opportunity through which, with more explanation on my part, I might have received an "I understand you better now" instead of just a condescending congratulatory remark followed by a defense of your still-incorrect judgment based on style.
Moving on is neither necessary nor sufficient when there's a chance to progress, but it seems that the status quo will be maintained, despite my best efforts. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 18:49:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
1.How do we stop them?
I wish I knew! Lol. I'm not being coy, Dave, I appreciate such a great question. We have discussed this ourselves many times. The aliens certainly have the ability to act at will for the most part.
You know how I prefer to discuss my own experiences rather than speculate on the experiences of others. But there are those who say they were there when treaties were entered into between the aliens and the US govt in which the aliens were given permission to abduct Americans in exchange for technological advances. Further, there are those who say that the aliens began abusing that permission very early on in the agreement, taking far more people that were agreed to, and not returning a great number of them. It seems the aliens were also revealing far less technology than was agreed too.
Yet, we may not want to stop the abductions, not for the big picture. It may be crucial to our survival as a species, from what I have been told by aliens.
I can go into detail on these points, but consider this a spoiler alert. Ask yourself if you really want to know. Now we are getting into the heavy stuff. |
Oh, please, don't stop there. I much prefer the ugly truth to beautiful fictions.2.How do we duplicate their technologies for travel?
Well, we already have, to my knowledge. But who do you mean by "we"? A small faction of US military having back-engineered these ships from crashed alien vehicles that were retrieved? Yes. The US people given access to these technologies? No. |
The whole world, so that our species' inevitable demise isn't so inevitable.There have been many crashes and retrievals, as many as 4 ships retrieved during the Roswell/Corona flap, Kecksburg, Germany, Texas, Australia, Brazil, and even on Long Island in the early 1990s.
Col. Philip J Corso wrote in his book about being in charge of distributing alien technologies from crashed ships to various sectors of high-tech private industry in the 1950s
To link this issue to CURRENT news events, the US is trying right now to extradite a british man who hacked into us military computers, Gary McKinnon. What McKinnon uncovered were documents about the US having a fLEET of reverse-engineered alien technology ships, colloquially called "The Nebraska Navy", McKinnon even found the duty rosters and personnel files of these ships. The US wants to sentence him to life in prison.
But as I say, I prefer not to speculate, but I'd have to say I'm confident that a faction of our military has these technologies, at least to a limited extent. |
So I take it that either nobody has asked the aliens if they'd share, or that the answer was "no."I'm certain that you didn't need my help to say what you've said, above. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 19:04:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
...and the thresd may be terminated. |
Crank the paranoia up a few more notches. Good job. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2011 : 19:06:27 [Permalink]
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Humbert.....
| all I see is you getting huffy over absolutely nothing. |
| In fact, a better man than you..... |
| I doubt anyone familiar with your M.O. is going to hold their breath while waiting for that to happen. |
| Explain what part of Dave's patient explanation of his position you find to be intentionally provocative. |
You know, with the amount of aggressive hostility that you exhibit, I am not particularly inclined to listen to the commands that you issue. If you would care to ask your question courteously, I will return a courteous answer. |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
