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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 18:22:38 [Permalink]
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SailingSoul.....
SailingSoul
The way it is here. It is not Flithy's responsibility to answer questions on what kind evidence would be sufficient to convince him or what evidence would prove le Penseur story and claims are truthful or real. Filthy is not telling the story and making the claims le Penseur is. |
Yes, SS, I fully agree. Apparently you did not read my post to Filthy above. I will provide the pertinent quotes below:Filthy
It is not for me to provide such evidence; le Penseur has made the claim and it is incumbent upon him to put up or shut up, not I. |
bngbuck
Of course it is not incumbent on you or any other person to try and find evidence for another's claim, unless you have a sincere interest in the truth or falsity of that claim. You, and most here, with the possible exception of Kil, have a relatively small interest in UAP claims. There is nothing wrong with that, it is a personal choice. |
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SailingSoul
Did Le Penseur claim to have "evidence"? I didn't read he did, in so many words, not in his first couple posts anyway and I suspect he never did. I'm surely not going to bother looking for them through all his posts since, because if he did he's not presented any yet. So I believe he has none. To bad he's not taken the effort to acquire a single shred. It's his lost opportunity and no one else. |
I have written extensively here on the difficulty of providing "evidence" as requested by several members. I will be glad to respond to any commentary you may have on those postings.| It is my opinion, with the lack of proof he's trying to pull chains and getting no where. |
| In spite of all his effort here. How sad. Like claiming to have found a gold mine and being unable to cash in. |
I apologize, SS, but I don't quite get the "pulling chains" simile. Do you refer to something like "rattling their cages"? If so, I understand but how is that like "claiming to have found a gold mine?" I am not trying to be insulting, I just don't completely understand what you are trying to say here.| Talking like a crazy deluded nut and unable to prove that your not. |
I do not share that opinion, although you are certainly entitled to it. I hope to learn enough more of LP's narrative to completely form my own opinion eventually. I am nowhere close to it yet.| whenever people make extraordinary claims like Le Penseur has made here or Theist or homeopaths or countless others who try to convince skeptics without evidence, it leaves those skeptics who partake improperly, slopping about in the impending mud bath nothing but dirty. Mud created from the inevitable pissing match between the claimant and any skeptic foolish enough to be lured into a discussion before any evidence is ever presented. I glad to see the best skeptics here responding as they have, in spite of the prodding. Good job. SS |
I am not at all sure that Le Penseur was really thinking in terms of "making a claim" when he first posted here. He is obviously smart enough to know this place would end up as a lion's den. So why come here in the first place? Well, it may not be completely rational but he might just enjoy the game. That has been a part of my purpose in being here, much more in the past than now in the present. What else, I sincerely hope to find out in my further discourse with him. Stay tuned, if you really have any interest in his subject matter. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 18:41:50 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
| You really can't drop this, can you? I tried to take it out of this thread and sent you a PM (which I know you've read), but two days later you're pulling the same nasty stunts again right here in public. It is absurd of you to be commenting on the civility of anyone else when you seem to revel in such open hostilities. |
Yes, thank you for the personal message. I would suggest a little patience as you have properly admonished me to have more of, as in: "Take your time, we'll be here."
I have some communication to complete before I can adequately respond to your PM, but I will try to accomodate you in a day or two.
I have taken note of what you consider to be absurd, and I will consider it.
"Same nasty stunts" is really excessive and unnecessary except for audience.
"Revel in such open hostilities" was true enough some time ago. I am genuinely attempting to reform and it is a hard habit to break. Like smoking! |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 03/04/2011 20:47:23 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 03/04/2011 : 19:04:56 [Permalink]
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bng, Let me help you understand something. le Penseur, if he isn't actually just tolling us (from his escalating stupidity, I'm going with troll), could benefit as well.
With regard to all claims and speculation regarding ET, to get rational thinking people to believe you, you will need strong evidence.
But here is the problem, there isn't any evidence at all. None. Not even any weak evidence. Before your friend LP proved himself a troll all anyone was asking for, myself included, was anything that could be considered evidence. Anything al all. Surely a person who has been repeatedly abducted would have given thus considerable though, agonized over some way to substantiate their story. LP has also claimed that his aliens have given him information. That presents an entirely new set of possibilities for evidence of the non physical type. When asked over and over LP can't bring anything to the table, nothing at all. He can't even suggest something that would potentially be evidence!
Now he is doing nothing but engaging in personal attacks and pretending to be pissed off. That says troll to me. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 03/04/2011 19:06:11 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 19:16:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
I would suggest a little patience... |
I wasn't expressing impatience for a reply in any way.| "Same nasty stunts" is really excessive... |
Perhaps it didn't deserve the plural.| ...and unnecessary except for audience. |
Same audience you pulled your latest gratuitous nasty stunt for. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 20:00:47 [Permalink]
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Dude.....
| bng, Let me help you understand something. |
Thank you, Dude| With regard to all claims and speculation regarding ET, to get rational thinking people to believe you, you will need strong evidence. |
What is it, Dude, that makes you think that I want to "get rational people to believe me? My book is not a manual of persuasion, or even of commentary. I am attempting to present a record of observation of a large variety of unusual phenomena, somewhat similar to the works of Charles Fort; but hopefully brought into the 21st century and presented with as detached and impartial a perspective as I can submit. SFN works for me well as a training and testing ground for such writing. I do believe that both content and style count. | Surely a person who has been repeatedly abducted would have given thus considerable though, agonized over some way to substantiate their story. |
I'm a little unclear on that sentence. Would you rephrase?| LP has also claimed that his aliens have given him information. That presents an entirely new set of possibilities for evidence of the non physical type. When asked over and over LP can't bring anything to the table, |
Would you please describe in considerably more detail exactly what you would like him to bring to the table.? I intend to ask some some specific questions along these lines, but I am interested in what would be persuasive to you.| Now he is doing nothing but engaging in personal attacks and pretending to be pissed off. That says troll to me. |
I know that you, and possibly others here, have that opinion. As you must know, I do not share it. I am sincerely interested in hearing Le Penseur out completely, before I form any opinions of his veracity or lack therof. I do not think he is a Troll. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 20:39:28 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
| Same audience you pulled your latest gratuitous nasty stunt for. |
Yes, we all are on the same stage, performing our various routines. It's a pity that there is not a reliable way to judge the overall response, not only as to number but also as to agreement, disagreement or neutrality. If such information was available, I'm not sure that it would significantly affect the performances, but it surely would be interesting data; at least to me.
For the record, I'll accept "gratuitous" and "nasty" as honest attempts to educate. "Stunt" needs tighter definition as does "latest".
Stranding preposition, Dave. Tsk! |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 21:20:48 [Permalink]
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bng asked:
| Surely a person who has been repeatedly abducted would have given thus considerable though, agonized over some way to substantiate their story. |
I'm a little unclear on that sentence. Would you rephrase? |
Was typing on my phone, which is difficult, and the phone auto-correcting spell checker is crap (which it shouldn't be, because the google toolbar spellchecker is pretty good, and the phone is an andriod, the google phone OS....).
So here you go:
Any person who has actually been abducted by aliens, especially if it happened more than once, must have put a great deal of thought into finding some way to substantiate their story. It is ridiculous to think that an alien abductee would just calmly accept that they will never be able to provide any evidence to back their story.
What would an actual alien abductee think they need to prove their story? I've asked LP a dozen times for some way to do this, but he has never even tried to answer. Hasn't even tried.
| Would you please describe in considerably more detail exactly what you would like him to bring to the table.? I intend to ask some some specific questions along these lines, but I am interested in what would be persuasive to you. |
This has already been done, more than once, in just this thread. I'm sure you read it. Why not one more time....
To fully convince me:
- A live alien.
- A dead alien.
- Some piece of alien technology (a scrap of clothing, a gadget, a full ship, any interstellar capable species is going to have common items that will stand out by comparison to ours, be made from materials we don't know or consider theoretical only, and so on. Bring us some alien trash, anything they discard, there is a good chance it will have some material not used/made anywhere on earth).
- A tissue sample (skin, blood, whatever)
To get me to consider the possibility:
- Some new math from the aliens. A mathematical problem that humans have not yet considered along with it's solution/proof.
- A clear HD video of an alien spaceship.
- A clear set of HD pictures of aliens.
I'm sure there are more things that would fit in both of those lists.
The problem with aliens is the same as the problem with religion. You have a large number of people looking into it, they have been looking for proof for a long time, and the best they can come up with is the testimony of other people.
If aliens were real, and visiting us, there would be trace evidence at least. LP has already said that their mind control is less than perfect, that they can be caught by surprise, that they fear death. Very anthropomorphic characteristics..... but it is not really plausible to think they are visiting us, abducting us, returning us, and leaving no trace behind.
When the stealth bomber/fighter were still secret projects (before they became public knowledge) one of them crashed on a New Mexico Indian reservation. The government spent a couple of months cleaning it up. In 1999 I was working near this crash site for a couple of months, one of the locals thought it would be cool to show it to me. After months of cleanup and years of weather, you could still find fragments of this crashed plane. I have one sitting on a shelf somewhere. So if the Roswell crash was an alien ship, as LP claims, where are the fragments of that ship? The US government can't clean up every piece of one of their own crashed planes, it is unreasonable in the extreme to think they could clean up 100% of a crashed alien ship in the 50s, or even recognize the fragments. LP says that his aliens feared crashing the ship he was on, they are active around the world and abducting a lot of people (per LP), so it stands to reason that in the last 60 years they have had a crash landing somewhere. So where are the pieces?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 22:49:20 [Permalink]
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I have no idea where to begin to respond to these posts, or even if I should. It would take me years to respond to the posts since my last post. Years.
Any suggestions on where I should begin or what I should address?
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 23:09:00 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
| Buck, your editor is correct. Less is better -- if three words will get the thought across, choose them carefully and use no more than those three. And a twist I use is to go through the piece and look for what I thought at the time as the cleverest turn of phrase ever. As soon as I find one, I ruthlessly delete the wretched thing. You will be suprised at how well this will clean and tighten a screeving up. |
Thanks, Filthy. You certainly confirm what my gal tells me. Less words, more meaning. I appreciate the tips! |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 23:26:45 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
| Any suggestions on where I should begin or what I should address? |
Yes.
1.From where do these aliens come? What is the "home" or base, galaxy, planet, whatever; from which the ships come, and, presumably to which they return? What is your e-mail, or any e-mail address, or postal address at which I can contact you? Any type of contact methodology that you prefer, if you don't wish to reveal your e-mail. My e-mail is bngbuck@roadrunner.com
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 03/04/2011 23:33:55 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 23:56:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
"Stunt" needs tighter definition as does "latest". |
The references (especially the latter) seem quite obvious to me. Did my quote of your stunt not define it with precision?| Stranding preposition, Dave. Tsk! |
John Dryden would be proud if that's the sort of English up with which you shall not put.
A rewritten oldie:A regular Joe and a prescriptivist grammarian meet in a bar at a popular vacation spot, and get to chatting.
At one point, Joe asks, "so where are you from?"
The prescriptivist says, "you'll have to ask again, since I'm from a place where we don't end sentences with prepositions."
Joe replies, "okay... So where are you from, asshole?" Edited to add:| Less words, more meaning. |
A proper prescriptivist would shriek, "fewer, since words are countable!" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 00:06:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
I have no idea where to begin to respond to these posts, or even if I should. It would take me years to respond to the posts since my last post. Years.
Any suggestions on where I should begin or what I should address? |
Sure: How can I differentiate between when a government employee is telling the truth and when he is acting as a disinformation agent?
(And you're now up to 6.89 posts per day, surpassing my 6.86! Bravo!) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 01:08:44 [Permalink]
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Dude.....
To fully convince me:
A live alien.
A dead alien.
Some piece of alien technology (a scrap of clothing, a gadget, a full ship, any interstellar capable species is going to have common items that will stand out by comparison to ours, be made from materials we don't know or consider theoretical only, and so on. Bring us some alien trash, anything they discard, there is a good chance it will have some material not used/made anywhere on earth).
A tissue sample (skin, blood, whatever) |
Dude, please. I have tediously typed the response to that unrealistic request several times already. So has LP! What you ask for is unrealistic and unreasonable. No human being under the control of aliens as described by LP could possibly respond to such a request. LP should deliver a spaceship to you? Come on. That is just plain ridiculous.To get me to consider the possibility:
Some new math from the aliens. A mathematical problem that humans have not yet considered along with it's solution/proof.
A clear HD video of an alien spaceship.
A clear set of HD pictures of aliens. |
1. Math - I feel it is at least possible that LP might have information of this nature. If I have the opportunity to converse with him, I will certainly ask.
2. HD Video of spaceship. If he or his family have a HD video camera and have taken videos of the spaceships, I think it would be reasonable to ask him for copies of that evidence. I will certainly ask him if he gives me the opportunity. If an alien ship landed in my backyard, I would not have access to an HD video camera to photograph it. I do not know how to use the camera that is built into my cellphone, as I never see anything that I particularly want to photograph.
3. HD pictures of aliens. As in the event of video evidence, I feel that it is reasonable to ask him for copies of such evidence. I am capable of paying and would pay a reasonable price for any of the above possible examples of such evidence. I have no idea right now if he has, or knows how to obtain such photographs.| I'm sure there are more things that would fit in both of those lists. |
If you think of them, please post or e-mail me and I will question LP if the requests are at least sensible to ask an ordinary human being to produce.| If aliens were real, and visiting us, there would be trace evidence at least. LP has already said that their mind control is less than perfect, that they can be caught by surprise, that they fear death. Very anthropomorphic characteristics..... but it is not really plausible to think they are visiting us, abducting us, returning us, and leaving no trace behind. |
Perhaps they have left traces of which you or I are not aware. This appears to me to be a reasonable question to ask LP| In 1999 I was working near this crash site for a couple of months, one of the locals thought it would be cool to show it to me. After months of cleanup and years of weather, you could still find fragments of this crashed plane. I have one sitting on a shelf somewhere. |
Do you have indisputable proof of this experience that you describe? Can the piece of debris on your shelf be proven to be from an early stealth bomber/fighter? Can you send me that evidence so that I can have it analyzed at my cost? Can you provide me indisputable evidence that you did, indeed, look at this crash site? If you will provide me with tangible evidence of your story of this alleged event in New Mexico, I will grant you a very high possibility of telling the truth about this event. However, I am not nearly as interested in your activities back in 1999, as I am in the experiences that LP describes. This may be a reasonable request. I personally have little knowledge or expertise in the logistics of crash clean-ups. Again, if I have the opportunity, I will certainly ask LP about it.
I have made numerous requests to LP over the last few days to answer a few alien questions, as he had requested SFN members to do. As yet, I have had a promise from him that he would respond, but that the answers were complicated and would take considerable time. I have reduced my current request to simply one - Where are the aliens from? I believe I have asked five times now, but no response yet. I am hopeful that he will at least answer that question. I am genuinely receptive to anything he wants to offer concerning the aliens. I do think that the petty fighting about who called who what name and when should stop. It is in no way productive of anything.
I really have no idea if I will have the opportunity to have a conversation with LP or not. All I can say is that I will continue to try!
Thank you for your civil and largely sensible post to me, Dude I do appreciate it more than just a bunch of insults that truly are not warranted.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 01:18:36 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
| The references (especially the latter) seem quite obvious to me. Did my quote of your stunt not define it with precision |
No. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 05:26:37 [Permalink]
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I said:
To fully convince me:
A live alien.
A dead alien.
Some piece of alien technology (a scrap of clothing, a gadget, a full ship, any interstellar capable species is going to have common items that will stand out by comparison to ours, be made from materials we don't know or consider theoretical only, and so on. Bring us some alien trash, anything they discard, there is a good chance it will have some material not used/made anywhere on earth).
A tissue sample (skin, blood, whatever) |
(bolding added)
Then bng said:
| Dude, please. I have tediously typed the response to that unrealistic request several times already. So has LP! What you ask for is unrealistic and unreasonable. No human being under the control of aliens as described by LP could possibly respond to such a request. LP should deliver a spaceship to you? Come on. That is just plain ridiculous. |
Respond specifically to the bolded part. Are you suggesting that an anthropomorphic ET (as described by LP) would never have trash? They have no consumables, no garbage, their old socks don't ever wear out? Even if they have some hyper advanced recycling there are bound to be pieces, like our own recycling efforts on earth, that they lack the ability to recycle. Remember, these ETs fear death, fear crashing their ships, fear that LP as a 10 year old boy could induce such a crash and their demise.
Thousands (or if you believe the troll, millions) of abducted people and not one of them can produce a single scrap of convincing physical evidence.
You know, I never agreed with Dave_W's assessment of your "agnosticism". I thought it was just the two of you throwing punches. You, right now, however, are doing a pretty good job of convincing me he is correct.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
