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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 21:58:46 [Permalink]
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Today, Bob Park had UFO news:Yesterday, the British National Archives released thousands of pages of files related to UFO sightings. The only mystery is why this crap was kept secret or kept at all. It served only to fuel the UFO myth. Within hours of the release, a new cover-up had emerged. The British government admitted that the files on the Rendlesham Forest Incident have disappeared. That must be the file with the unequivocal evidence of a space-alien conspiracy. I was sympathetic. A decade earlier, pressured by Rep. Stephen Schiff (NM), the US Air Force sent everything it had on UFOs, to the US National Archives in a number of huge wooden crates. Along with a historian, I was asked to be present when the crates were opened and verify that the contents were not tampered with. In addition to paper, there were films and photographs and some hardware. Much of it seemed to have little or no connection to the UFO controversy. That so much could have been made of so little, indeed of nothing at all, continues to amaze me. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2011 : 01:37:21 [Permalink]
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Wow. I go away for a day or two and come back to find that the usual suspects have distorted, mis-represented, and outright lied about many parts of my account. Of course they will respond with more untruths, which I won't have the time or stomach to unravel. Then when I finally put my hands up and run for the hills, they can declare victory and bad-mouth me when I'm gone.
ADDRESSING DISTORTIONS, ONE BY ONE:
1. This word "troll" I've been called by the less-bright among you. I'm relatively sure that isn't a scientific term. I'm not familiar with internet slang so, I asked my girlfriend. She says a TROLL is someone online whose sole purpose is to upset, cause trouble, destroy friendships, and generally "start shit". Unquote, lol. It is her expert opinion, after reading several pages of posts, that those here calling me troll are indeed trolls themselves, displaying "purely troll-like behavior." I was shocked to learn that, but I value her learned opinion.
2. DaveW:
It's called Stockholm syndrome, you intellectual, you. Not Helsinki syndrome.
3. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 05:16:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Wow. I go away for a day or two and come back to find that the usual suspects have distorted, mis-represented, and outright lied about many parts of my account. Of course they will respond with more untruths, which I won't have the time or stomach to unravel. Then when I finally put my hands up and run for the hills, they can declare victory and bad-mouth me when I'm gone.
ADDRESSING DISTORTIONS, ONE BY ONE:
1. This word "troll" I've been called by the less-bright among you. I'm relatively sure that isn't a scientific term. I'm not familiar with internet slang so, I asked my girlfriend. She says a TROLL is someone online whose sole purpose is to upset, cause trouble, destroy friendships, and generally "start shit". Unquote, lol. It is her expert opinion, after reading several pages of posts, that those here calling me troll are indeed trolls themselves, displaying "purely troll-like behavior." I was shocked to learn that, but I value her learned opinion.
2. DaveW:
It's called Stockholm syndrome, you intellectual, you. Not Helsinki syndrome.
3.
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Ok, what's #3?. Lay it on us; thesuspenseismurder.
Quite frankly, I've been around a fair number of decades and I have yet to see, read or hear anything that might convince me of alien visitation. I too, enjoy a bit of sci/fie, but none of that stuff is a documentary, the oft-imbecilic History Channel to the contrary. You have about as much chance of proving your claim as I have of winning a gymnastics competititon. Nevertheless, you spin a pretty good yarn and, as I stated earlier, it was a pretty good read.
Remember War of the Worlds? That set off a perfectly human panic reaction that today we find hilarious -- what a bunch of morans them folks was in the thirties, eh? Anyhow, that was a wildly successful poe second only to the various religious texts that are flapped in our faces on a near daily basis. I'd wager that if it were re-run today we'd see a lot of the same reaction.
To sum up; you are asking us to buy a pig in a poke. I can assure you that it ain't on the agenda and won't happen until it is. To get it on said agenda, you must provide something other than anecdote to back your claim, and that ain't gonna happen either because there is nothing but anecdote out there.
Now, concerning #3; is it about me? Oh, I do hope so! I haven't received a good, snappy insult in ever so long.......
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 05:20:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Wow. I go away for a day or two and come back to find that the usual suspects have distorted, mis-represented, and outright lied about many parts of my account. Of course they will respond with more untruths, which I won't have the time or stomach to unravel. Then when I finally put my hands up and run for the hills, they can declare victory and bad-mouth me when I'm gone.
ADDRESSING DISTORTIONS, ONE BY ONE:
1. This word "troll" I've been called by the less-bright among you. I'm relatively sure that isn't a scientific term. I'm not familiar with internet slang so, I asked my girlfriend. She says a TROLL is someone online whose sole purpose is to upset, cause trouble, destroy friendships, and generally "start shit". Unquote, lol. It is her expert opinion, after reading several pages of posts, that those here calling me troll are indeed trolls themselves, displaying "purely troll-like behavior." I was shocked to learn that, but I value her learned opinion.
2. DaveW:
It's called Stockholm syndrome, you intellectual, you. Not Helsinki syndrome.
3.
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So you still have nothing. Not at all surprising.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 05:22:03 [Permalink]
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ADDRESSING DISTORTIONS, ONE BY ONE:
3. Let me say I'm offended by DUDEs complete insistence on insulting me for saying the aliens acted like authority figures. I don't really know, but Dude seems to have little grasp of what the term authority figure means: | He said they presented as authority figures (which is fucking imbecilic, your mom is terrified of them, they take your whole family against your will, they hurt you.... but you look up to them? Ummm, no.) |
He clearly doesn't know what the term 'authority figure' even means. To the Jews in Germany in the 1930s, the Nazis were authority figures. To the young girls tried as witches in Salem, the men who tried and hanged them were authority figures. Is dude of the belief that the Jews "looked up to" the Nazis? Because that is exactly what he is saying above.
Thank god Kil adds a breath of common sense here, much welcomed, I might add. | Authority figure doesn't mean figure of respect that you "look up to" necessarily. Unless you are forced to respect what the authority can do to you. Kinda like the time I was face down with my hands in cuffs after I spit on a police car because I thought the cop was being a dick... Unless you count my vantage point at the time, I didn't look up to the cop, but he was in control of the situation. |
Kil, exactly, thank you. See, dude? An intelligent person understands that being an authority figure does in no way mean they are loved, admired, respected, or "looked up to". But they are in control of the situation, as Kil says. You insult me unjustly.
You think that would be the end of it, but Dude still doesn't seem to get it:
| Yeah, well, we are talking about LP's reaction to his aliens. When a cop handcuffs you, you know you are only going to make things worse if you fight more. You also have a way to seek redress for any real wrong a police officer does to you. |
Huh? How does this relate in any way to the aliens acting like authority figures, or Dude's insistence that authority figures are always "looked up to"? Kil brought up cops abusing him as an example of an authority figure that he wasn't "looking up to". Whatever point dude is trying to make here, is lost. And Dude should tell Amedu Diallo that he has a way to "seek redress for any real wrong by a police officer". Oh, wait, the police shot 41 rounds at him and killed him.
But dude persists:
| they may well be authority figures, but I don't care how old you are, if some alien/person/whatever terrifies your mother in front of you, you should be pissed off, even if you are scared too. |
Where exactly did I say that I've never been angry? I never said any such thing. Many times I have been angered and upset over the situation, and the stress it has caused our family. Dude goes after my mother, what he seems to be saying is that I don't love my mother because I wasn't angry enough at the aliens. I love my mother. So let's stop insinuating I don't. I have been angry at the aliens, never said anything to the contrary. But many times I've been just as angry at my fellow citizens, for acting as if their guesses about aliens are as valid, or even more valid, than my first hand experiences. Or for someone saying I don't love my mother, which would upset any of us.
Yes, I've been angry at the aliens. But you see, these experiences have been so profound, they have caused me to feel almost every emotion at some point.
It may be difficult for Dude and his ilk to understand, But these experiences can bring on very strong conflicting emotions at the same time.
I've been enraptured, amazed by the beauty and intensity of the colored lights, color so rich and pure, bright but not blinding, a type of light humans have not yet produced. Truly beautiful. Colors changing in complex patterns. Colors I've never seen before, or seen any way to reproduce, and I'm a rather accomplished fine art painter. There's nothing to compare it to.
This is a poor analogy, buts it's a little like when you see the headlights on the highway at night, and one of the cars has halogen lights, cleaner, brighter, whiter than the other cars lights. Imagine that times 100.
**This may be an interesting detail to some of you, of the sort I was hoping to talk about when I first came in here. I don't think I've heard anyone else ever say this, but it has been my observation, so let me share it: The alien ships, even while hovering or moving, are so silent, that the only sound you can hear, IF you get close enough, is the slight sound of the mechanism that moves the lights, as they shift and rotate.** Hope that was of interest to some.
So I can feel that amazement at the lights, and at the same time be panicked, angry, afraid. Scared shitless. And yes, this can trigger a release of Epinepherine/Norepinepherine into my system. My body wants to fight or flight, or do both. This is another point Dude attacked me over, he equated my adrenaline reaction with "feeling a rush when they torture your mother", or words to that effect).
So many conflicting emotions. An alien encounter can leave you feeling pride and shame at the same time.
I will write more soon, thank you for listening.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 06:20:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Helsinki Syndrome?
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Stockholm Syndrome, after a bankrobbery in Stockholm gone wrong and robbers taking hostage. No physical abuse of the hostage seems to be an important part of the development of emotional attachment to the captors. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 07:21:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
2. DaveW: It's called Stockholm syndrome, you intellectual, you. Not Helsinki syndrome. |
Misremembered. Thanks for being so civil when correcting me.
Now, since you apparently aren't leaving, can you provide an objective method to discriminate between disinformation and truth in statements by government entities? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 07:23:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
No physical abuse of the hostage seems to be an important part of the development of emotional attachment to the captors. |
Well, that kills that hypothesis.
Battered spouse syndrome is still on the table, though. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 07:47:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
1. This word "troll" I've been called by the less-bright among you. |
For the most part, I've seen speculations about you being a troll, not outright accusations without merit.
| I'm not familiar with internet slang so, I asked my girlfriend. She says a TROLL is someone online whose sole purpose is to upset, cause trouble, destroy friendships, and generally "start shit". |
In my honest opinion, that sounds more like bngbuck than you. At least from the first few pages of this thread.
| It is her expert opinion, after reading several pages of posts, that those here calling me troll are indeed trolls themselves, displaying "purely troll-like behavior." I was shocked to learn that, but I value her learned opinion. |
Disregarding her unverified status as expert, she being your girlfriend I'd hardly call her opinion objective. She didn't bother to mention to you that some of your responses rate high on the troll-posting scale too? She should have, had she been objective. Had she been an expert, she should also have mentioned the term "drama queen" (about some posts, not necessarily yours).
Secondly, this being a skeptics site, members here usually place high value in logic, and during discussions paying close attention to logical fallacies. Your girlfriend might not be aware and hence misjudging a lot of posts because her use of language and local custom differs from what she is used to (which also have to do with her expertise in judging contents of posts). There is a difference between making a proposition or speculation that someone is a troll, and making an affirmative declaration that someone truly is. (The latter requires evidence) You may argue that it's semantics, and I would respond that semantics is important: It really does make a difference what we say.
Take for example the post where you suggested that FTL is possible, with a couple of links to articles which seems to confirm your suggestion. If I call you ignorant, I do not mean that I think you are stupid. I would use it because I feel you lack the training in physics necessary to have a qualified (or well founded) opinion on the matter. And I couldn't possibly blame you for being ignorant about it. Relativistic physics is complicated shit, and I'm pretty sure less than 10% of the population in your country, or even mine, have a grasp of it.
What I'm trying to say is that you (and your girlfriend) is interpreting what is posted in this thread in the worst possible light, over-interpreting, and hence find much more antagonism that there really is. You accuse members of lying about what you have written, but you have done so yourself, by claiming that we are not interested in or actively seek to deny the possibility of aliens on earth. In fact, the opposite is true. You just don't seem to be open our point of view, and therefore unable to understand where we're coming from.
Another thing in the troll/not-troll question: don't forget that you have written quite a few unnecessary antagonistic posts yourself. Any high ground you could have hoped for in this thread, has been abandoned for cheap shots at Dave and Dude. Consider all the energy you've spent on them: even if you felt insulted by them, how is insulting them back going to make anything better? It will only fuel the downward spiral into fail and an impossible situation for you. Both are respected members of the community and you're doing yourself a disfavour by attacking them: even if you think the retaliation is justified or not, neutral members might not share your view but see your attack as offensive.
Instead of wasting energy on unproductive things, why not focus on listening to, and answering Kil and filthy? You haven't burned any bridges there beyond repair, and they aren't as strictly formal. If you learn to get along with them, maybe you'll realise that the others aren't as bad as you may think.
Edited to fix spelling.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 03/06/2011 07:58:19 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 08:08:29 [Permalink]
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Something of interest; we may well have had alien visitors, albeit not of the abducting sort.
We are not alone in the universe -- and alien life forms may have a lot more in common with life on Earth than we had previously thought.
That's the stunning conclusion one NASA scientist has come to, releasing his groundbreaking revelations in a new study in the March edition of the Journal of Cosmology.
Dr. Richard B. Hoover, an astrobiologist with NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, has traveled to remote areas in Antarctica, Siberia, and Alaska, amongst others, for over ten years now, collecting and studying meteorites. He gave FoxNews.com early access to the out-of-this-world research, published late Friday evening in the March edition of the Journal of Cosmology. In it, Hoover describes the latest findings in his study of an extremely rare class of meteorites, called CI1 carbonaceous chondrites -- only nine such meteorites are known to exist on Earth.
Though it may be hard to swallow, Hoover is convinced that his findings reveal fossil evidence of bacterial life within such meteorites, the remains of living organisms from their parent bodies -- comets, moons and other astral bodies. By extension, the findings suggest we are not alone in the universe, he said.
“I interpret it as indicating that life is more broadly distributed than restricted strictly to the planet earth,” Hoover told FoxNews.com. “This field of study has just barely been touched -- because quite frankly, a great many scientist would say that this is impossible.”
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There was a similar study done years back that, as I recall, was pretty much inconclusive. Maybe this one will tell us something.
Edited to add: Or maybe not.
Did scientists discover bacteria in meteorites?
Category: Kooks
Posted on: March 6, 2011 9:44 AM, by PZ Myers
No.
No, no, no. No no no no no no no no.
No, no.
No.
Fox News broke the story, which ought to make one immediately suspicious — it's not an organization noted for scientific acumen. But even worse, the paper claiming the discovery of bacteria fossils in carbonaceous chondrites was published in … the Journal of Cosmology. I've mentioned Cosmology before — it isn't a real science journal at all, but is the ginned-up website of a small group of crank academics obsessed with the idea of Hoyle and Wickramasinghe that life originated in outer space and simply rained down on Earth. It doesn't exist in print, consists entirely of a crude and ugly website that looks like it was sucked through a wormhole from the 1990s, and publishes lots of empty noise with no substantial editorial restraint. For a while, it seemed to be entirely the domain of a crackpot named Rhawn Joseph who called himself the emeritus professor of something mysteriously called the Brain Research Laboratory, based in the general neighborhood of Northern California (seriously, that was the address: "Northern California"), and self-published all of his pseudo-scientific "publications" on this web site.
It is not an auspicious beginning. Finding credible evidence of extraterrestrial microbes is the kind of thing you'd expect to see published in Science or Nature, but the fact that it found a home on a fringe website that pretends to be a legitimate science journal ought to set off alarms right there.
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I am not familiar with the Journal of Cosmology and so can't comment on it. And as for FuxNooze, well, even a blind hog will find an acorn once in a while and their story might be one. I dunno and will leave it to the membership to thrash out.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/06/2011 08:36:15 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 09:32:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
No physical abuse of the hostage seems to be an important part of the development of emotional attachment to the captors. |
Well, that kills that hypothesis.
Battered spouse syndrome is still on the table, though.
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I don't think physical abuse rules out Stockholm Syndrome.
Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 09:40:50 [Permalink]
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Well, heck: that piece makes it clear that Stockholm Syndrome and battered spouse syndrome and one-and-the-same.
Learn something new every day. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 09:48:53 [Permalink]
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LePenseur.....
Thank you for returning! |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 10:41:20 [Permalink]
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| Today, Bob Park had UFO news: |
Wiki
Park has also expressed his opinion that Wikipedia is a target for misuse by the "purveyors of pseudoscience",[11] though he has also stated that he finds the site to be both indispensable and "cool" |
Fair and balanced! |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
