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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2011 : 21:42:15 [Permalink]
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Dave, perhaps we simply are not communicating clearly, as you say. I'll try harder.
During this encounter, the thought of stealing something never entered my mind. Why would it? I didn't even know what the hell was going on. Why would I be concerned with proving it to someone who might someday ask me for proof? To think about proving it on the someday-internet ? Furthest thing from my mind.
I stated above my feelings during the abduction:
Scared of pissing them off for fear of being paralyzed again,
scared to resist because they might not take me home at all,
and trying to do whatever I had to to get them to take me home again.
But you said a ten year old couldn't have those feelings. I assure you < I did.
But people pressed again and again, "why didn't you grab evidence! I would!" So I explained why I didn't and went so far as to list several reasons why it was downright impossible. At no point did I indicate that at ten years old I ever considered "stealing evidence" and put together a checklist of why it was not even possible. Had I done so, there would have been no reason to go beyond the first reason : There was nothing to steal.
If you read into my statements otherwise, you were mistaken. But if you insist on calling me a child-genius, I will be forced to agree! 
I'm excited to click on this haiti link, and tell you what I think!...back in a few..! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 21:46:00 [Permalink]
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| Why are they always destroying Los Angeles in movies? Doesn't even matter what the disaster is. Aliens, Volcanos, Lex Luther, Global Warming, and so on... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 22:05:58 [Permalink]
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| Couldn't possibly be that alien stories mean big bucks (as I've already established, bigger than vampires and zombies, almost put together), and that the media doesn't want to lose out on the cash? It'd be interesting to see a historical chart of the ET-related economy as a percentage of GDP. I'd wager that even though the films were much cheesier, the fifties had a much higher percentage than today, contra your "constant increase." |
You're stating that the decade of the 1950s had a much higher percentage of alien imagery in the media than TODAY'S movies, TV, ads, books, radio, and the internet? That's an absurd statement. I'll take that bet any day. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 22:08:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
During this encounter, the thought of stealing something never entered my mind. Why would it? I didn't even know what the hell was going on... Furthest thing from my mind. |
And that would have been a perfectly reasonable and acceptable answer, just like that. But you opted for your other reasons, first, and you wrote about them as if you actually thought of them as reasons for not stealing back when you were ten (or five) and onboard the ship.I stated above my feelings during the abduction:
Scared of pissing them off for fear of being paralyzed again,
scared to resist because they might not take me home at all,
and trying to do whatever I had to to get them to take me home again.
But you said a ten year old couldn't have those feelings. I assure you < I did. |
No, I never said that a ten-year-old couldn't have those feelings, I said that a ten-year-old wouldn't list them as reasons for not stealing from aliens. Having those feelings is far different from connecting them, at age ten, as consequences of an act of petty theft. Especially the "communications" reason, which many adults wouldn't even grok.
It's like with the aliens telling you to not touch anything because it might crash the ship. If you'd said that you, at age ten, decided on your own to not touch anything because it might crash the ship, it would have ruined the believability of the story. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 22:35:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
You're stating that the decade of the 1950s had a much higher percentage of alien imagery in the media than TODAY'S movies, TV, ads, books, radio, and the internet? That's an absurd statement. I'll take that bet any day. |
No, I'm saying I'd bet that the amount of money spent on alien-related stuff was a higher percentage of GDP back in the '50s than it is today. (The days of radio serials like Buck Rogers are long behind us, for example.) This would involve totaling up the costs of production and sales, and dividing into the GDP to correct for inflation and other variables. While the total dollar value of movies and tickets and whatnot has gone up, I'm thinking that the GDP has gone up faster.
The ubiquity of the Internet would actually help me win the wager (if it's winnable, which I doubt), since there are tons of people watching Battle of LA right this instant, on free, pirated torrents (they would have had to have snuck into theaters 60 years ago, a much more risky proposition and so done by fewer people). Hell, my own budget for sci-fi has been about $18/month for the last couple of years thanks to Netflix, which has out-competed more expensive brick-and-mortar services like Blockbuster. I haven't seen the inside of a movie theater in two-and-a-half years (no pause button). The alien films I've seen on cable recently have been for free, thanks to a free six months of HBO my provider gave me. The Internet has made getting alien stuff cheaper for the consumer, thus reducing its percentage of the GDP, not increasing it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2011 : 23:01:15 [Permalink]
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| Star Wars merchandising alone would top the entire decade of the 1950s |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 00:24:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Star Wars merchandising alone would top the entire decade of the 1950s |
But GDP was much higher in the late '70s than in the '50s. I'm not talking about absolute dollars, but relative dollars.
Besides, there were plenty of tin ray guns sold in the '50s. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 00:31:12 [Permalink]
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LP said:
| He clearly doesn't know what the term 'authority figure' even means. To the Jews in Germany in the 1930s, the Nazis were authority figures. |
You make my case for me, thanks. The Jews fought back, resisted, helped others resist.
he equated my adrenaline reaction with "feeling a rush when they torture your mother", or words to that effect).
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You should just use the forum quote function, that way your damaged, half functional brain won't get confused by poorly remembered information, and I won't have further cause to correct your flawed and illogical criticisms.
Let me remind you of your own words.
When we speak of these incidents, my brothers and I, it brings adrenaline to our blood, usually. It is exciting, scary, sure, but Jesus, how thrilling.
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I'm sure I would not be "thrilled", in any sense of the word, remembering an incident where my mother was terrified by something. Why do the memories of your mother being scared to the point of trying to hide thrill you?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 00:47:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
| Couldn't possibly be that alien stories mean big bucks (as I've already established, bigger than vampires and zombies, almost put together), and that the media doesn't want to lose out on the cash? It'd be interesting to see a historical chart of the ET-related economy as a percentage of GDP. I'd wager that even though the films were much cheesier, the fifties had a much higher percentage than today, contra your "constant increase." |
You're stating that the decade of the 1950s had a much higher percentage of alien imagery in the media than TODAY'S movies, TV, ads, books, radio, and the internet? |
Oh, most certainly. It was considered the "Golden Age of Science Fiction". You had radio kids who grew up listening to Buck Rogers battle Ming the Merciless now reading epic science fiction like Isaac Asimov's Foundation series. Comic books that used to be about detectives now featured alien superheroes whizzing around the galaxy. Hollywood was churning out schlocky B movies with absurdly bad aliens for the drive-in crowds (Ed Woods produced most of his "best" films in the 50s), even a few that are still considered classics today like The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), The Thing from Another World (1951), War of the Worlds (1953), Forbidden Planet (1956), and The Blob (1958). It was only a few years after the end of the decade when President Kennedy would issue his bold challenge to step foot on the moon. Aliens dominated the popular culture and entertainment of the 1950s, much more so than today.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 01:09:33 [Permalink]
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you guys are completely high! n 2010, Lucasfilm broke its record for the most revenue gained from toy sales in a year without a Star Wars theatrical release, raking in $510 million dollars worth of action figures, space ships, and other assorted hunks of plastic.
The Hollywood Reporter points out that, though there were no Star Wars films in theaters, the popularity of the Cartoon Network’s Star Wars: Clone Wars maintained a certain pop cultural profile for the franchise.
Keep in mind that this is purely toy sales, and does not include the myriad of other merchandise from a galaxy far, far away. When George Lucas negotiated his contract to write and direct the first Star Wars film, he insisted on maintaining the merchandising rights, including toys, and 20th Century Fox readily agreed.
At the time, studios didn’t view toy tie-ins as a meaningful enterprise. Lucas corrected their thinking, and you’ll notice that almost every big blockbuster these days is accompanied by a slew of toys and related merchandise. Hell, in the case of the Transformers franchise, they finally made a huge movie based on the toy instead.
This year, Star Wars will be even more inescapably ubiquitous, with the September DVD and Blu-Ray release of all six films. And after that, we’ll be treated to 3D re-releases of the entire franchise, one-per year, starting with The Phantom Menace in 2012. That’s right, you’ll soon be enjoying the narrative slough of Episode I in three dimensions. |
Star wars alone beats the entire decade of the 1950s. tin ray guns? ha! |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 01:17:05 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
1. I don't understand why this is necessarily or even probably ad hoc, -- ten years old or adult, it wouldn't matter if there really was nothing to steal. And although a ten year old might not have noticed that, it seems reasonable that LP could add that information from his second abduction experience
| Had there been something to steal, hypothetically, I am convinced the aliens could prevent an abductee from doing so through telepathy. |
2. That answer would probably not have been on the mind of a ten year old. But, according to LP's description, those powers were a fact whether the 10 year old knew it or not. So it may not be a matter of he did not steal anything because he was sure the aliens would prevent it, the aliens may very well have actually prevented it by telepathically preventing him from stealing. So, this is not necessarily an ad hoc answer - another possibility could be that they did prevent him from stealing irrespective of his sophistication. This would be, of course, in the event that there was something there to steal.. As long as there is at least one other possibility, I feel that it is incorrect to conclude that it must be ad hoc
| I think that level of resistance could be dangerous, taken as very unfriendly, and have serious consequences |
3. I agree that it is quite unlikely that a ten year old boy would have the cognitive ability to conceive an abstraction such as this.
| 4. It would also limit my level of communication with them. |
4. Definitely unlikely for an average 10 year old to be thinking in terms such as these.
| Most important, I'm just trying to do what I have to so they take me back home. |
5. I see this as a completely normal reaction for an abducted pre-teen; child enought to be scared silly, adult enough to be willing to do as told if the promise is to be returned to home.
| It's all very ad hoc indeed, and neatly explains your verb tense problems ("I am" instead of "I was," etc.). |
It appears to me that three of the five answers that you feel must be ad hoc actually have reasonable alternative explanations indicating that the 10 year old LP is credible with regard to those situations. He appears to me less credible represented as a child in the answers to two of the questions.
The past/present verb form is problematical. I cannot at this stage offer a satisfactory explanation. Certainly have noticed it, however. Hopeful that, if I can reestablish communication, I can ask some gentle questions. It begins to appear at this time that LP has taken heed of various admonitions to ignore me because of my ill-advised commentary concerning my complicated view of you.
I would appreciate additional comment from Le Penseur on those two responses as to their credibility as indicative of the actions of a ten year old. However, if his view is that all this comparison of the first narrative with the second narrative is nit-picking, or is in some way dismissive of the entire analysis, I would then, rather than further pursuit of this matter, much prefer to ask him additional questions such as:| What is the non-terrestrial origin of the aliens, or is such origin actually terrestrial? |
and many others! I very strongly feel that a great deal more call-and-response is necessary before Judgement Day! I very well may never reach that time. I will certainly understand if you do not agree with any of this.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 01:46:47 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
| Still, I felt perhaps the problem was they just hadn't had a chance to actually speak with a relatively intelligent, literate person who had the experience of alien contact and was willing to talk about it openly and honestly. |
That describes me pretty accurately, LP.
From my posts in this thread, do you disagree with that what you have described above defines my position completely accurately, or not, or what?
I truly want to get away from emphasis on your credibility and find out more detail about what you know about aliens and their behaviour. There is a place for credibility questions, but I feel that it is way too premature to make such judgments before you have really begun to tell what you know abour aliens!
Again, where do the aliens come from?
Please answer at least this one question, Le Penseur |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 03:27:33 [Permalink]
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bngbuck, I have finished answering the "why I didn't steal from the aliens" question, and I feel I have done so in a very thorough and clear manner. Thanks for your concern.
I was wondering why you disappeared. You ask:
| What is the non-terrestrial origin of the aliens, or is such origin actually terrestrial? |
I have come to the understanding that these aliens, the species of aliens that I have dealt with, are not of terrestrial origin, and I wouldn't feel comfortable calling them extra-terrestrial either, although it is technically correct. I feel it would be more informative to describe them as extra-spatial, or extra-dimensional. Or even inter-dimensional.
They don't come from a planet around a star in our sky, traveling through conventional space. The have the ability to shift in and out of our reality. Although I disagree with a lot of what Dr. Jacques Vallee says, I think he is absolutely correct on this point.
Keep in mind, most of the UFO community does not agree with me, I'm definitely in the minority. But I feel the aliens have made it clear to me. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2011 : 04:20:55 [Permalink]
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I'd be interested to know what their physical appearence was like as well their means of locomotion. Did they walk bipedally, slither, or were they a sort of super gastropod? Did they have any difficulty moving about in our gravity? How did they manipulate objects? Hands and if so, how many digits, tentacles (octopi are quite dexterous), claws (crustaceans and other arthropods are not so dexterous, but they get by)? What sort of clothing did they wear, if any, and what did the fabric look like? Did they wear any breathing aids such as oxygen masks or were they comfortable in our atmosphere? Were they tall or squat, slim or robust and what did they eat? Was it supplies from ship's stores or did they forage the countryside? How did they eat; masticating like ourselves, simply absorb their food, or ingesting whole chunks like a bullfrog? Did they have any recreational habits such as chewing gum?
Everyone realizes, I hope, that this thread is likely to get us all kicked out of the Skeptic's Union.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/07/2011 04:22:34 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 05:39:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
you guys are completely high!
...Star wars alone beats the entire decade of the 1950s. tin ray guns? ha! |
And you're ignoring the normalization against GDP.
Of course, you could have spent your time offering your thoughts about the Haiti UFOs instead of demonstrating that you don't understand what a "percentage" is. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
