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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2011 : 04:53:46 [Permalink]
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So now you're quote-mining. *tsk* You really should put in the whole sentence/paragraph for context, otherwise I will accuse you of a logical fallacy.
The photographer steadies his/her body against something solid and hits the shutter and tracks the camera. Simple enough and your argument from incredulity holds no water.
Now then, I would like to see documented evidence of mass panic at the horrific appearance of a flying saucer. Other than Orson's little Halloween gag, that is. Thus far, you have provided exactly nothing by way of support beyond hand-waving. Are we to just take you at your word? If so, when are you going to try and sell us a bridge?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2011 : 05:02:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
And my name is not Mr. Poe, you may refer to me as le Penseur, or I can select a new name for you as well, if you want to go that route.
If you still think that my first hand account of alien contact is an elaborate ruse or hoax, you're really not a very bright individual, despite the nice things bngbuck has said about you.
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Bugbuck is mistaken; I am not a nice person and do not suffer hogwash gladly. As far as I am concerned your first-hand account is hogwash and will remain so until you come up with some reliable support for it.
Bring it on, Mr. Poe.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 05:25:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
And my name is not Mr. Poe, you may refer to me as le Penseur, or I can select a new name for you as well, if you want to go that route.
If you still think that my first hand account of alien contact is an elaborate ruse or hoax, you're really not a very bright individual, despite the nice things bngbuck has said about you.
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Your ignorance and delusional mind, combined with your arrogance and innate stupidity, seem to have fooled you into believing more insane things than being abducted by aliens. You actually think that your word is good enough to convince anyone that you really were abducted by aliens.
I pity you.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 05:37:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Wow, this degenerated to bitter carping again rather quickly, thanks solely to daveW and his endless capacity to produce bile..
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I didn't see it as carping at all. I read it as essentially reducing your list of reasons why the Haiti UFO video was fake from 9 to just 2. And pointing out the certainty of your language used in the list. Your words are all we have. You should expect to be challenged.
edited to add:
Originally posted by le Penseur
Originally posted by filthy
And as for holding a steady camera in an exciting situation, military photographers do it all the time
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LOL So now it's a military photographer, fresh from a combat stint in Afghanistan, wearing the elaborate steady-cam harness and rigging, on the beach at twilight, very ready for something unusual to go overhead.
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You should also learn that snarky replies do little to enhance your tale.
Originally posted by le Penseur
Man, you guys concoct more bullshit than any fringe UFO tale-teller I've ever encountered. I really think so, at this point.
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Really? And you're the one telling a tale of multiple improbable encounters in a forum full of people very familiar with the bulloney detection kit. We are resposnible for the bullshit? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 03/08/2011 05:55:44 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 06:27:44 [Permalink]
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Just for the hell of it, and because Arthur is paying a visit that has me house-bound and bored to distraction, I ran a Wiki on "Alien Abduction." It was quite interesting:
"Alien abduction From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses of related terms, see Abduction (disambiguation).
"Alien Abduction" redirects here. For other uses, see Alien Abduction (film).
The terms alien abduction or abduction phenomenon describe "subjectively real memories of being taken secretly against one’s will by apparently nonhuman entities and subjected to complex physical and psychological procedures."[1] People claiming to have been abducted are usually called "abductees" or "experiencers." Typical claims involve being subjected to a forced medical examination that emphasizes their reproductive system.[2] Abductees sometimes claim to have been warned against environmental abuse and the dangers of nuclear weapons.[3] Consequently, while many of these purported encounters are described as terrifying, some have been viewed as pleasurable or transformative.
Due to a lack of any substantial physical evidence, most scientists and mental health professionals dismiss the phenomenon as "[d]eception, suggestibility (fantasy-proneness, hypnotizability, false-memory syndrome), personality, sleep phenomena, psychopathology, psychodynamics [and] environmental factors.".[4] Skeptic Robert Sheaffer also sees similarity between the aliens depicted in early science fiction films, in particular, Invaders From Mars, and those reported to have actually abducted people.[5]
The first alien abduction claim to be widely publicized was the Betty and Barney Hill abduction in 1961 .Tom was abducted by an alien.[6] Reports of the abduction phenomenon have been made around the world, but are most common in English speaking countries, especially the United States.[5] The contents of the abduction narrative often seem to vary with the home culture of the alleged abductee.[5]
Alien abductions have been the subject of conspiracy theories and science fiction storylines (notably The X-Files) which have speculated on stealth technology required if the phenomenon were real, the motivations for secrecy and that alien implants could be a possible form of physical evidence.
Overview
CUFOS Definition of an Abductee[7]
A person must be taken:
Against his or her will
From terrestrial surroundings
By non-human beings.
The beings must take the person to:
An enclosed place
Not terrestrial in appearance
Assumed or known to be an alien spacecraft by the witness.
In this place, the person must either:
Be subjected to an examination,
Engage in communication (verbal or telepathic),
Or both.
These experiences may be remembered:
Consciously
Or through methods of focused concentration such as hypnosis.
Mainstream scientists reject claims that the phenomenon literally occurs as reported. However, there is little doubt that many apparently stable persons who report alien abductions believe their experiences were real. As reported in the Harvard University Gazette in 1992, Dr. John Edward Mack investigated over 800 claimed abductees, and "spent countless therapeutic hours with these individuals only to find that what struck him was the 'ordinariness' of the population, including a restaurant owner, several secretaries, a prison guard, college students, a university administrator, and several homemakers ... 'The majority of abductees do not appear to be deluded, confabulating, lying, self-dramatizing, or suffering from a clear mental illness,' he maintained." [9] "While psychopathology is indicated in some isolated alien abduction cases," Stanley Krippner et al. confirmed, "assessment by both clinical examination and standardized tests has shown that, as a group, abduction experients [sic?] are not different from the general population in term of psychopathology prevalence."[10] Other experts who have argued that abductees' mental health is no better or worse than average include psychologists John Wilson and Rima Laibow, and psychotherapist David Gotlib.[11]
Some abduction reports are quite detailed. An entire subculture has developed around the subject, with support groups and a detailed mythos explaining the reasons for abductions: The various aliens (Greys, Reptilians, "Nordics" and so on) are said to have specific roles, origins, and motivations. Abduction claimants do not always attempt to explain the phenomenon, but some take independent research interest in it themselves, and explain the lack of greater awareness of alien abduction as the result of either extraterrestrial or governmental interest in cover-up."
Our friend seems to fit the mould pretty well. As you read on, you'll see just how well. There's a lot of stuff I didn't know in there, although, in my defense, I've not been particulary interested in the subject and haven't studied it. Until now.
There is little point in demanding some sort of independant support for any of these claims; they have never been forthcoming and unless an alien abduction actually occures, for real, it won't be.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 09:11:09 [Permalink]
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Would it be asking too much to allow le Penseur to get back to his stories? That is if he's going to. Yes this is a skeptics site, but it's already been agreed that the minimal evidentiary requirements will most likely not be met to support his stories. All of the name calling and nit picking is counter productive in my opinion. It's not as though we are going to change le Penseur's mind. He thinks he and his family has been repeatedly abducted. And I would like to hear about it before we go into full skeptic mode. I mean, damn we would make lousy investigators if we can't get past our urge to demolish his story before we even hear him out.
And le Penseur. Is it not possible for you to not have a hissy fit every time someone finds what might be a flaw in your reasoning? You did come to a skeptic site on your own accord. You need to thicken that skin of yours some. And you aren't shy about name calling, even when the person asking the questions is not calling you names. What's with that?
I personally don't think this is a poe job. I've run this by Michelle who is much more expert than most of us are (being a psychologist and all) and she thinks our guest is the real deal, meaning that le Penseur is genuinely convinced that he was repeatedly abducted.
How about if we get on with the stories, and save the analysis for later, eh?
Otherwise we can spend pages just restating our position, go into full debunk mode, and really, what will we have learned? Give it a rest. I promis that you will not have to turn in your skeptic credentials by listening to the whole story...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 09:57:58 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
HIP, HIP, HOORAY!!!
Bill |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 10:22:29 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
I have never practiced the craft that I attended college for over eight years to obtain some skills
necessary for licensing - Clinical Psychology. I have attempted between trips to the bank to keep informed on developments in the field, but that is a poor excuse for academic rigor and experience in therapy and an actual practice of a discipline like clinical psychology.
However.....
I would like to say that I totally agree with Michelle in her assessment of Le Penseur.
Also, we have a practicing MD psychiatrist among our members who might care to comment (might not, too) I, for one, would welcome such appraisal. This person has read the entire thread and obviously has some interest in it.
Avez-vous un commentaire?
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 11:27:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
And le Penseur. Is it not possible for you to not have a hissy fit every time someone finds what might be a flaw in your reasoning? You did come to a skeptic site on your own accord. You need to thicken that skin of yours some. And you aren't shy about name calling, even when the person asking the questions is not calling you names. What's with that?
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Glad that you include this I am.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 13:19:22 [Permalink]
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From my recent readings, I've seen that calling poe on le Penseur was wrong. I apologize and will not do it again.
However, those readings show why it is impossible to argue with le Penseur. He is as set in his story as a fossil in it's matrix and will not budge from it. This is the "True Believer" syndrom we meet in the religiously rabid, albeit considerably milder.
I will go back to letting others scratch at that wall.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 13:40:23 [Permalink]
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Filthy
| However, those readings show why it is impossible to argue with le Penseur. |
And that declaration makes three of us here on SFN, so defined in just this thread! It's contagious! I hope it doesn't become an epidemic! Also, some of us have found out that we are indeed male body parts, stirrers of feces, Trolls, and poisoners. This is the decade of progress for SFN. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 14:20:10 [Permalink]
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So now you're quote-mining. *tsk* You really should put in the whole sentence/paragraph for context, otherwise I will accuse you of a logical fallacy.
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You've all been doing the exact same thing to me.
| The photographer steadies his/her body against something solid and hits the shutter and tracks the camera. Simple enough and your argument from incredulity holds no water. |
Wow. Any level of convoluted nonsense in order to be right, eh? I was pretty clear: | And even those FEW that thought quickly enough to want to take footage of it, would be frantically trying to get their camera, turn it on, set it to record, set the exposure if necessary, press the record button, and try to find the ship through the eyepiece in the five or ten seconds they had to act. They'd be lucky to catch a few frames of the ship. |
So now you have them taking MORE time from the few seconds available during the sighting "to find something solid to hold their body against, to steady themselves". Are you really unaware of how illogical your statements are becoming? |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 16:27:44 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur......
You've all been doing the exact same thing to me
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Wow. Any level of convoluted nonsense in order to be right, eh?
So now you have them taking MORE time from the few seconds available during the sighting "to find something solid to hold their body against, to steady themselves". Are you really unaware of how illogical your statements are becoming? |
Le Penseur, please cool down a little. There will be no end to the call-and-response if you don't. You are trying to answer a number of provacateuers They will eventually wear you out, LP, there are too many of them!
Listen to Kil's plea! He is right! Turn the other cheek, as counter intuitive as that may seem! There may be somrthing to the JC myth after all, whoever wrote it!
You have been asked a number of legitimate questions which are structly about aliens! If you answer them honestly to the best of your ability, it is probable that there will continue to be a flurry of abusive response. That is the nature of this beast. You have ruffled some skeptical feathers. You have violated some of The Rules of Logical Fallacy! These are big sins around here! You cannot walk into a Fundamentalist Baptist tent revival meeting, stand up and loudly denounce Jesus Christ!
Not without some argument. Or maybe tar and feathers.
Eventually, you will likely just give up, thinking you are wasting time and energy, That will be mostly right - except for Kil, and myself. And possibly a few that have not spoken up at all, although you would think that a member would chime in if they valued the discourse at all. And there are always lurkers at boards like this that really are interested, but for various reasons (time restraints, distaste for the contentious tone here, etc.) do not join. Then there are those who really enjoy reading the minutes of the Tourettes society meeting (or however you so aptly put it). They probably also all enjoy watching Charlie Sheen publicly descend into madness. I mean, a little bit of it is alright, but this is getting to be ridiculous and it really is dejá vu all over again for me, as I have been there and done that back in 2007. All about UAP/ET also!
Please answer some further Alien questions that you have been asked. And continue to fight if you do, in fact, enjoy the combat. I can fully understand that, but I am old, and I really need intellectual stimulation. Playing the stock market (gambling) has its own flavor of excitement, but it is not nearly as intellectually stimulating as SFN
3. What is their purpose in extensively traveling through our atmosphere?
4. What is their purpose in abducting folks like you and your family?
5. Is the abduction random selection or selective targeting? |
Apologies to all whose Skeptical Feathers I have ruffled, but no, I won't take it back!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 16:32:12 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
| Bugbuck is mistaken; I am not a nice person |
Yes you are, Filthy By and large, you are delightful! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 17:00:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
So now you're quote-mining. *tsk* You really should put in the whole sentence/paragraph for context, otherwise I will accuse you of a logical fallacy.
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You've all been doing the exact same thing to me.
| The photographer steadies his/her body against something solid and hits the shutter and tracks the camera. Simple enough and your argument from incredulity holds no water. |
Wow. Any level of convoluted nonsense in order to be right, eh? I was pretty clear: | And even those FEW that thought quickly enough to want to take footage of it, would be frantically trying to get their camera, turn it on, set it to record, set the exposure if necessary, press the record button, and try to find the ship through the eyepiece in the five or ten seconds they had to act. They'd be lucky to catch a few frames of the ship. |
So now you have them taking MORE time from the few seconds available during the sighting "to find something solid to hold their body against, to steady themselves". Are you really unaware of how illogical your statements are becoming?
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Kindly show me where and when I have quote-mined you. Or anyone, for that matter.
Never served in the military, have you? If you had, you'd see exactly how people can react in highly stressful situations. Running & screaming ain't in the equation -- doing what's necessary with speed and skill is. Four or five seconds in plenty of time for a pic or five.
But the point is moot anyway; no legitimate photograph has ever been taken of a so-called "spaceship." However, if you can come up with one, I, among others, would be interested in seeing it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
