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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 10:42:48 [Permalink]
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le Penseur:
I will add, eventually I did succeed in taking video of the aliens ships, I was contacted by a CBS affiliate that wanted to interview me and show my footage on the news, after reading about in on the front page of a couple of area newspapers. The news anchor declared my footage on-air to be "convincing evidence." My interview and footage were re-broadcast nationally by CBS, and I got calls from around the country. That's how we ended up working with Bud Hopkins, UFO Hunters, and a few other names you'd recognize.
It would have been nice to get to that point in telling you about my family's experiences. |
And no one has stopped you from doing that. But you're having another hissy fit. This time over nothing. bngbuck's sarcasm wasn't directed at you, even it it was uncalled for. Dave would like to know how you arrived at the conclusion you arrived at on the video to see if you are just shooting from the hip after saying that you know the differences between fakes and real videos of alien craft. But because Dave found fault with your original methodology, and you took exception to that, what exactly was the point of linking to a video that you think is real if you aren't going to explain why you think that? Okay, you think it's real. So? (I see an insect too. Can you tell me why you don't? What makes it an alien spacecraft with what we know about "rods?" But now you are going to get mad at me too for asking, right?
And then there is this. I really do want to hear you out. So does Dave, Bill, Humbert and others. Most of us, really. But you keep going off on anyone who questions you. So what are you? Did you want to be treated like some delicate flower? Or did you think that simply telling a part of a story would be all it should take to convince us and now you are frustrated that hasn't already? Go back and read your OP. (Your first post in this thread.)
This may be an exercise in futility if, on a skeptics forum, you don't get that we are indeed, skeptics. Okay... You were an eye witness. I'd like to know more. But dropping tidbits and then running off or going off on people doesn't really help your case. Maybe telling the whole story would. But you seem to relish in the diversions and after 29 pages of this, you still haven't gotten to it.
To some extent I have been trying to run interference for you, but you have to help with that too!!! Because it's coming to the point that even if you were abducted by aliens, it doesn't matter because you are throwing down as many roadblocks to telling your story as anyone else here is. So you will go off thinking we're ignorant and we will go off thinking that you have given us nothing at all to reevaluate our position other than that you say we are wrong.
Personally, I would love to be wrong about this. (As I said before, it's my guess that we would all like to be wrong about this.) But I don't see that happening by way of you, le Penseur. Not if you keep stomping around having hissy fits and worse, not understanding what people here are asking.
I understand that you think we are blind to the facts. But if you work from the assumption that everyone who doesn't see things the way you see them are stupid, in denial, and so on, and you treat them that way, what do you think will happen?
More to the point. Your's is an extraordinary claim. While you site the millions who are on board with what you believe, that's no argument. This isn't about popular belief. And in truth, more millions don't believe that aliens are abducting people, or at least doubt it. CLAIMS OF REAL EVENTS are not up for election. They either happened or they didn't. It's as simple as that.
So why don't you just get on with your story? I'm all ears. Stick to your OP and tell your story. You said you were tired of preaching to the choir. Well... We aren't the choir, and you knew that coming in.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2011 : 12:41:32 [Permalink]
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Thank you for volunteering this as an example you consider to be an authentic alien craft, but it is actually a very distinctive, well-understood photographic artifact that occurs when you film an insect in flight.
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Do you mean "effect" rather than artifact, bright boy?
The FBI came to a different conclusion. Look into the case and learn something. If you're capable. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 12:53:15 [Permalink]
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"Artifact" is the correct terminology, learn something. If you're capable.
http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/observing/artifacts.html |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 12:58:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Do you mean "effect" rather than artifact, bright boy? |
Why the insult? I did not insult you. Do you often get aggressive when people try to present you with information? What happened to heeding your brother's warning that the greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge? Do you have any actual reasons to doubt the explanation I've offered or is it just hubris on your part?
| The FBI came to a different conclusion. Look into the case and learn something. If you're capable. |
Why would I need to consult the FBI when I already have a perfectly sound explanation? And I thought you were distrustful of government agencies. Do you suddenly trust the FBI now? Or only when you find it convenient to do so?
Come back when you actually have an argument that doesn't involve relying on an authority you've already characterized as unreliable. If you're capable, I mean.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 13:10:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Thank you for volunteering this as an example you consider to be an authentic alien craft, but it is actually a very distinctive, well-understood photographic artifact that occurs when you film an insect in flight.
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Do you mean "effect" rather than artifact, bright boy?
The FBI came to a different conclusion. Look into the case and learn something. If you're capable.
That's very interesting, I wasn't familiar with that phenomenon. I'm not prepared to accept this explanation at the moment, as there are conflicting statements I'd like to consider, but thanks for the information. It definitely gives me something to think about!
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FIFY
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Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 13:54:23 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
| No, sadly, I guess it's Forget you too, bngbuck, along with the rest of these retarded sheep. When the only other reasonably rational-sounding person in here starts sounding like the rest of these poor people, it may be time to take my leave. |
Le Penseur, please permit me to apologize for the misunderstanding. It is largely my fault!
Starting at the beginning, I addressed you with:Le Penseur.....
Dave
So you're not going to describe your method for determining that it is an alien craft? That's the important part. Without it, we learn nothing. |
So, you MotherFucker LP, you're not going to describe your method.....goddammit, you promised!!!
You ##&*xx?//(really bad shit) |
This was intended by me to mock Dave's sometimes heavy-handed dissection of his opponents. Dave is a lexigraphical coroner, a pathological parser of dead words searching for violations of Logic, of Critical Thinking, of the Rules of Logical Fallacy. I am sure you have seen that by now!
My sarcasm failed. I am obviously not a master of satire, it fell flat and was perceived literally as an obscene attack upon you. As if that was not enough, Brilliant Bill continues with....
Actually, you did!
Le Penseur
So you provide any links you want to alleged UFO footage, and I will tell you if I believe it to be genuine or fake, and I will certainly share my methodology in doing so. |
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and next, here, is where I put both of my stupid feet into my stupid writing.....| sadly, I guess it is ante up, LP! You must not leave a single challenge unanswered!!! |
LP, again my intention here was an oh-so-clever piece of heavy sarcasm! You, understandably, took it literally as written. In front of one and all, I outsmarted myself. Well, all I can say again is I honestly apologize.
To anyone else here except Kil, I would make some kind of annoyingly superior jab to the effect that "sorry you can't communicate on my level." Kil is correct, that would be uncalled for, but being the asshole that I am, I would do it anyway.
But not to you. I genuinely want to hear you out fully on the subject of Aliens, LP; and I have no interest at all in endlessly parsing your responses and fine dissection of your every nuance of meaning. I just want to ask alien questions and think about your answers and their implications.
I agree with much of what Kil has said above. He, being an owner of SFN, can legitimately make comments about what is good and what is bad to post. I have no such restraints, and I have told him privately, and also admitted here publicly, that from time to time I behave badly. There are others that do also, of course. But this is a skeptic's forum. It serves many different interests of many different people.
Personally, I feel that your posts are very valuable for this place. There are many here that don't agree. I'm not here to argue with them, even though I have done some of that. What I really want is to hear you out, LP, and now I have put myself in the regrettable position of driving you away instead, just because I was trying to be the Master of Sarcasm and Satire and ended up being a smart-ass instead.
Please try to understand that I am dead serious in my entreaties to you to stay here and talk about Aliens. Myself and Kil to a slightly lesser degree (he is not writing a book, to the best of my knowledge) and possibly one or two others here, really want you to stay. It is a skeptic's Forum, so difficult questions will be asked. As to the manner in which those questions are asked, and the embroidery that accompanies them, I can only say, to paraphrase a really bad book| Forgive them, Le Penseur, for they know not what harm they do; nor do they give a damn, because knowledge is not what they seek, rather self-gratification |
You may include me in that group, at least to the extent that I am writing elsewhere about these exact topics. That is a form of self-gratification. Data collection! But I genuinely have no interest in just bad-mouthing you until you go away --- I truly want to hear all that you care to reveal!
I would greatly appreciate it if you could find a minute to open and read the Personal Message (PM) that I sent you the other day. And if you care to respond, I would be delighted!
It's my sincere hope that you do not leave us LP, but if you do, I (and Kil too,) regret the circumstances causing your departure. You have been true pleasure to hear from and to watch your very competent combat effectiveness. If it is fun for you, stay for the play. If not, cease and desist - I can certainly empathize - as I frequently feel that way myself. It's like smoking - you quit and quit but you seem to always go back. That one I beat years ago. It's like a deadly, but delicious drug. I'm pretty sure that at this point you agree with half of that.
Thanks for being here, LP god (figure of speech) knows I want you to remain, but you have been pretty thouroughly ravished here, and I don't expect you to be a masochist.
Thanks, LP
Bill Buck
bngbuck@roadrunner.com
Coeur d'Alene Idaho
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 15:25:34 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
| It's like looking in a mirror |
Wow! Is this really Dave, I'm listening to?
Oh, hell; I knew this sweet bubble would have to burst!
| Good to know you went back an hour later to fix something in that masterpiece, bngbuck. |
I like the hell out of "masterpiece", but there is a tiny little particle of doubt in me somewhere that suspects irony, or something akin to it, in that comment.
Didn't have to go back. Wrestled with it for an hour! Finally, the spirit of Kil prevailed. It had to, Dave, I really am an ass-kisser. There are several of you folks here at SFN that have noticed, and it's foolish for me to try and stay in that closet any longer!
Odd, with your evident interest in that edit, that you didn't post what it was that I went back and added in the edit:| That's the important part! With it, we learn nothing. |
Odd!
It really is fun, isn't it Dave? Most of the time, I think so! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 15:28:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
The FBI came to a different conclusion. |
Well, that would be interesting.
UFO casebook discusses the FBI involvement. Since the local FOX affiliate used the word "missile" in regards to the video a little over 13 months after 9/11, I'm not surprised that the FBI took an interest. Unfortunately, UFO casebook doesn't document any conclusion reached by the FBI.
Rense.com has nothing, also.
Google Answers links to a defunct Digital City page which apparently claimed, a few days after the incident, "No official determination was released by authorities."
The Freepers mostly mocked it.
WKMG Orlando is no help.
blogtalkradio has the standard NUFORC stuff, but also includes an interview with the cameraman from nine days after the video was shot. In it, he says that it was the local police Captain who called the FBI in, but more importantly, he says that the video had been in Washington being "analyzed" for over a week, and he'd heard nothing back from the FBI. The interviewer even asks him if the Bureau had mentioned ETs, and the cameraman said "No, no, they never said anything like that. There was a lot of talk around the station like that. But, no the FBI never said anything like that."
The David Icke forums have a copy-and-paste of the UFO Casebook page.
I don't have time to listen to the Jerry Pippin interview of the cameraman, but it was later still. Perhaps he spoke more about the FBI's investigation.
And then there's another copy of the clip on YouTube.
That's the first page of Google results for the search "ufo albany ny 2002 fbi." No conclusions from the FBI are at all in evidence yet. Since most of the time, the most-pertinent results are listed first, I probably should have found something about the FBI concluding that the video does not show an insect. But I didn't.
I then went to fbi.gov and ran some searches there. No luck at all.
Please, le Penseur, just post a link to an article which details the FBI's conclusions on this video. I don't have all day to be chasing around the Intertubes, either. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 15:53:34 [Permalink]
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Hal.....
Do you mean "effect" rather than artifact, bright boy?
The FBI came to a different conclusion. Look into the case and learn something. If you're capable. |
---------- (SHOWS ABOVE COMMENTS LINED OUT)----------
| That's very interesting, I wasn't familiar with that phenomenon. I'm not prepared to accept this explanation at the moment, as there are conflicting statements I'd like to consider, but thanks for the information. It definitely gives me something to think about! |
Hal, you are a wise man!
You could counsel quite a few of us around here.
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 03/09/2011 15:55:34 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 16:16:48 [Permalink]
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bngbuck, since all of your posts seem to boil down to either gratuitous insults or gratuitous ass-kissing, it would save time and thread space if you skipped the needless verbiage and merely listed a name and whichever of these two icons apply:
 or 
Just trying to be helpful. |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/09/2011 16:18:40 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 16:43:38 [Permalink]
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Filthy......
| Ok, I'll take it back and add the declaration that God exists. |
as long as it is an afterthought, that's OK with me. Actually, that's OK with me anyway. I would love to hear you, of all people, elaborate on that declaration!| What would I do with said photo? You ain't gonna like it, but I would simply frame it and hang it on the wall. |
Why in the world would I not like what you did with the photo? If I knew that you had such a rarity and you wanted to sell it, I would offer you a pretty penny for it. Yes, Filthy, I would take your word on it's authenticity - I know, I know you are not a good guy by your own pronouncemrnt, but I honestly believe you are an honest guy.
If you wanted to sell it, I would subject it to exactly the same procedures that I outlined for the hypothetical case in which I took the picture myself!| But after all, in this day and age, who trusts a photograph anyway? I don't unless it's got a pretty damned good provenance. |
I would trust one that you stated was genuine, Filthy |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 16:52:01 [Permalink]
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Filthy
| You mean feed the Christians to the lions? Isn't that illegle? |
Apparently, it was not illegal in Ancient Rome. Personally, I would disdain, but the adage is a wise one, which, in the case of SFN, I frequently, but selectively, ignore. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 16:55:48 [Permalink]
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| Computer Error. Will repost |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 03/09/2011 16:57:00 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 17:23:54 [Permalink]
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Fripp.....
| "the only other person who accepts what i have to say without evidence" |
I believe that I am the person to whom Le Penseur is referring here. | Simply because we (at a skeptics' site, no less) don't blindly accept what an anonymous poster claims. |
Your collective "we" probably does not include me. I am neither blindly accepting nor blindly rejecting Le Penseur's narrative. I could not if I wanted to. I have not heard enough of it.
All I am interested in right now, is allowing Le Penseur to finish all of what he originally wanted to tell us. | There we go with the name-calling again. |
| "I have absolutely no evidence for my claims so I'm going to call you names." |
Finally.......,
| After all, I AM the THINKER!! |
Et tu, Brute?
After all, the Ides of March are well nigh! Only 6 days! |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 17:24:19 [Permalink]
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Want to pretend it's an insect? I bet you do.
Sorry, It clearly goes BEHIND the clouds, which were at a ceiling of 5,000 feet that day. Wow. Mighty big insect! Better get the BIG can of raid! lol
Sorry to "swat" your easily invalidated theory.
| NUFORC also was contacted by a gentleman from Birmingham, AL, Mr. Brian Huff, a forensic video analyst, who had captured the video from the FOX 23 website, and who has analyzed the tape. We provide elements of his video analysis with this statement. Mr. Huff has stated to NUFORC that, based on his analysis of the footage, the object is genuine, and that it is not a superimposed image. He also stated that the object is on the other side of the clouds, which provides some perspective as to the size of the object, and its velocity, which Mr. Huff concludes is considerable. We extend our gratitude to Mr. Huff for sharing his analysis with NUFORC |
Amy Hebert is the owner and publisher of one of the best UFO-related websites on the Internet. The Identified Flying Objects Database, run by Ms. Hebert, has dozens of still images taken from videos that she has shot, which at first glance appear to show UFOs, rods, ghost orbs, and all sorts of seemingly mysterious phenomena. But as Ms. Hebert shows, appearance is not always reality. The objects shown in the images at IFO Database, which appear anomalous at first glance, actually have rather mundane explanations attached to them. Birds, insects, dust particles, planes, and other everyday objects floating around in our skies can take on a life of their own, one, when viewed from a suggestive or misleading context due to how the photograph or video is labeled, and two, when frozen in time and space, creating a context and perspective our eyes are not accustomed to seeing.
Ms. Hebert thinks the rods phenomenon is most likely a simple misidentification of objects we see in our skies on an everyday basis. After studying the images at IFO Database, I tend to concur with this conclusion. Because of her experience photographing and filming insects, birds, planes and the like to show how easily one can be fooled by these objects, I asked for her to comment on the Albany video, expecting a skeptical response in return.
In her comments, Ms. Hebert said, "Although most rod images have been demonstrated to be flying insects frozen in flight, the UFO in the Fox footage from Albany, NY, seems to fly behind several clouds. Also, upon closer inspection, the extensions or wings on the object do not seem to alternate as they do in images of alleged rods [i.e. insects]. The extensions appear straight and immobile. I've videotaped insects, birds and many other objects in flight and many times these objects may fade in with the background making it appear that they are flying into or through clouds. But the Albany, NY object doesn't appear to be blending in with the clouds in the background as I've seen so often while videotaping known flying objects."
I was somewhat surprised by Ms. Heberts reaction. She was quite sure the object was not an insect, as I had believed she would conclude. So much for that explanation, the mysterious object remained just that, a mystery.
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
