|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 21:58:40 [Permalink]
|
Le Penseur.....
Welcome! | I can tell you these beings travel interdimensionally, not interstellarly, they don't originate from a planet around a star in our skies, they come from right here, another plane of reality. That right there is something not "already known", most of the UFO community is operating on the premise that these beings are from 'outer space'. |
As Wolf Blitzer (CNN) would say, "Thank you for that". Your answer addresses one of many questions I have asked, and I do appreciate the view thru the window you have provided.
Do you have more to reveal about "planes of reality"? Big concept.
. |
 |
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 03/16/2011 : 22:08:57 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by le Penseur
Almost every post you've made has been laughable. Show me your degree in psychiatry before you judge my childhood, you are clearly unqualified. You are saying that I should have been aware of science fiction written decades before my birth at age five? Laughable.
"The idea that you were somehow insulated from these ideas but were still a normal child is laughable"? You sound insane. An average child at that age was watching sesame street and whatever cartoons they happened to be showing on the three TV channels that existed in 1968 or 1969.
So, then, the star map Betty Hill was given by aliens, that at the time was thought to be incorrect, has NOT been established to be incorrect to this date. In fact, the more information we have as to that region of space supports the star map. My memory isn't inaccurate, your entire rationale is.
|
bolding mine
It has NOT been established that I am not one of your abductors, and that my being here in these forums is just to ensure you aren't believed by skeptics.
No, really, how retarded are you?
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 22:14:20 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by le Penseur
Almost every post you've made has been laughable. |
So much for Lent.| Show me your degree in psychiatry before you judge my childhood, you are clearly unqualified. You are saying that I should have been aware of science fiction written decades before my birth at age five? Laughable. |
No, I'm saying that you were aware of these ideas, whether you remember it or not.| "The idea that you were somehow insulated from these ideas but were still a normal child is laughable"? You sound insane. An average child at that age was watching sesame street and whatever cartoons they happened to be showing on the three TV channels that existed in 1968 or 1969. |
Or popular network shows like Lost in Space or Star Trek, fercryinoutloud.
You're claiming that you were completely insulated from popular culture because of your age, but that's idiotic because young kids hear their parents, their friends, and even random strangers talking about the latest films and TV shows that they may not have watched themselves. Mad Magazine, which you claim to have read (though probably not at five) was nothing but spoofs of popular culture. Trying to claim (like you are) that you weren't exposed to the science fiction of the day is to claim that you led an extremely abnormal childhood, in direct contradiction to your previous claim.| So, then, the star map Betty Hill was given by aliens, that at the time was thought to be incorrect, has NOT been established to be incorrect to this date. In fact, the more information we have as to that region of space supports the star map. My memory isn't inaccurate, your entire rationale is. |
You've provided exactly zero evidence to support your claim that the map has been deemed accurate at all. Your say-so is certainly not good enough.
Oh, since you're talking to me again, perhaps you can explain how, objectively, one can tell the difference between true statements from Dr. J. Allen Hyneck and the ones he made in order to "silence" people like you? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 22:42:04 [Permalink]
|
le Penseur:
I can tell you these beings travel interdimensionally, not interstellarly, they don't originate from a planet around a star in our skies, they come from right here, another plane of reality. |
le Penseur:
...Betty Hill was given knowledge of a star map that was thought incorrect at the time, but twenty years later was confirmed to be accurate. |
Can you clarify here? How is it that another star system that exists in this dimension can be described by aliens from another dimension if their travel isn't intersteller? If they're from another dimension, how would they have knowledge of other star systems in this dimension? Maps of them even? What would be the use of such a map to aliens who are from "right here" and travel inter-dimensionally? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 12:08:55 [Permalink]
|
Along with my previous reply...Originally posted by le Penseur
An average child at that age was watching sesame street... |
Yes, Sesame Street.| ...and whatever cartoons... |
Like The Jetsons. Heck, Marvin the Martian was introduced to the world in 1948, and starred in four more cartoons before 1968, all of which were re-run in the old Bugs Bunny shows of Saturday morning ABC and CBS programming between '62 and '85. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 12:39:47 [Permalink]
|
Dave.....
Absolutely remarkable! Response time 14 hours, 38 minutes, 4 seconds. With all you have to do and all that must be bearing on your mind at this time, that is a bravura performance! I congratulate you, and I mean it, Dave! |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 13:38:18 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by bngbuck
Dave.....Absolutely remarkable! Response time 14 hours, 38 minutes, 4 seconds. With all you have to do and all that must be bearing on your mind at this time, that is a bravura performance! I congratulate you, and I mean it, Dave! |
 |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 15:58:00 [Permalink]
|
Dave.....
What I mean to say is that it was a clever response to LP's Sesame Street comment, and you were not able to immediately respond for whatever reason; but in returning you went to You Tube or some place and got that funny and appropriate clip! It was not a cheap shot, it was funny and appropriate to support your argument.
You must be concerned about the safety of your wife to some degree right now, you have a job, and SFN obviously requires considerable babysi... attention. There are many demands upon your time, energy, and stress level. Your response, as many have been, was well done!
I, personally, do not feel that Sesame Street had anything to do with Le Penseur's narrative of an abduction experience, but, as always, that is only my opinion. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 17:01:29 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by bngbuck
What I mean to say is that it was a clever response to LP's Sesame Street comment, and you were not able to immediately respond for whatever reason; but in returning you went to You Tube or some place and got that funny and appropriate clip! It was not a cheap shot, it was funny and appropriate to support your argument. |
Well thanks, but it didn't go down like that. Something reminded me of the Yip-Yips, so I wrote that comment. It was an "Oh, yeah!" moment, and not 14 hours of me being distracted by other things.| I, personally, do not feel that Sesame Street had anything to do with Le Penseur's narrative of an abduction experience... |
Probably not specifically, and especially not for the first abduction, since the Yip-Yips first appeared in 1971. The point is, though, that Sesame Street (and Saturday morning cartoons) certainly were not insulation from ideas about aliens, since they readily incorporated such pop-culture motifs.
I remember watching Star Trek when I was five, and it was already in syndication by then. le Penseur might have been watching the show on the original air dates in '67, '68 and '69 in prime time on NBC (I might have, also, but don't remember it). Hell, the early 1960s saw the birth of the classic Creature Feature shows (and their smaller-market cousins) which played lots of 1950s science-fiction movies, packed with aliens, in prime time on weekends. "Normal" kids in the late 1960s watched ETs on TV, quite often. The idea that le Penseur couldn't possibly have been exposed to ideas about how aliens might look and act because of his young age and his access to only three TV channels is ludicrous. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 01:39:46 [Permalink]
|
Dave.....
| The idea that le Penseur couldn't possibly have been exposed to ideas about how aliens might look and act because of his young age and his access to only three TV channels is ludicrous. |
Well, his original statement was| "The idea that you were somehow insulated from these ideas but were still a normal child is laughable"? You sound insane. An average child at that age was watching sesame street and whatever cartoons they happened to be showing on the three TV channels that existed in 1968 or 1969. |
I don't understand why it is necessarily true that| "The idea that you were somehow insulated from these ideas but were still a normal child is laughable" |
and | The idea that le Penseur couldn't possibly have been exposed to ideas about how aliens might look and act because of his young age and his access to only three TV channels is ludicrous. |
My two kids, now in their early and later forties hardly watched Sesame Street at all. Not that it wasn't available. Their mother was pretty well opposed to anybody watching a lot of daytime television at all, and on top of that, neither one of them were very fond of TV for some reason. We read to them extensively, and we travelled extensively with them, and they just never got hooked on TV. To this day!
I see it at least as a possibility that there were some kids back in the sixties that really were not particularly influenced by kiddie SF on TV. Le Penseur probably was powerfully influenced by something in order to have the conviction that he does, and the need to express the memories of his experiences publically; again and again. I personally don't feel that it is almost a certainty that exposure to TV or comic books or movies or pop culture in general caused it ("absurd", "laughable", "ludicrous" etc.)
Neither do I think that you are "insane" for suggesting it. There are many possibilities here. I have not heard nearly enough to narrow down my impression of his narrative to a mere two or three psychological possibilities.
What is certain is that either he was abducted by aliens or he was not.(For practicality, and some brevity, I am not addressing this in probability terms yet) If he was abducted, there are a million things to learn with enormous consequences for mankind's view of natural events, all of the sciences, etc.
If he was not, there are also many possible explanations for his statements. You, and others, have offered several of those; and likely there are more that highly trained professionals in many fields would offer. Eventually, they could likely be narrowed down to the few most likely.
Some others here have expressed the view that that they don't think LP was deluded, insane, mentally defective, etc. I agree; he is too intelligent, informed, quick-witted, and writes too well to be any of those. It is more difficult to try and determine whether or not he is trying to hoax us. I simply choose, for now, not to accept that as a final conclusion. I have not heard nearly enough answers to specific questions yet to reach any conclusions. So, I am simply still in a state of mind of openly listening to a lot more narrative before I feel I can reach really firm conclusions about his credibility.
Many others here have already heard enough from LP to reach that tipping point. This is because most people feel that "Aliens" as he has described them, are not possible. That is OK, and perfectly understandable. I simply have not heard enough yet to arrive at that degree of conviction.
It's similar to a belief in God. Long ago, I reached a decision point that the existence of God, as seen by most organized religions, was extremely unlikely. I am still open to persuasion, because so many educated, informed, intelligent people still profess a belief in God to some degree or another. My wife, for example. But I still remain unpersuaded after more than fifty years of discussing the subject. So does she.
You guys that are very certain that Le Penseur was not abducted by aliens, may simply be way ahead of me in the reasoning process. I have already stated my impression that Critical Thinking, in all of its manifestations, cannot deliver Absolute Certainty. At least not with the rather limited exposure that we have had to Le Penseur
I really do want him to stay here and post until many more Alien questions can be asked and answered. I am aware that several folks are no longer interested in this thread. Perhaps it will devolve to just LP and me. That would be unfair, as I don't feel that LP and I own any of this bandwidth. I have asked him repeatedly if I might correspond with him if he decides to leave. For some reason I don't understand, he has not responded.
If a large majority of members really want this thread to end, I can only hope that LP will contact me. In any event, I sure hope that there will be some way for me to hear more from this interesting (to me) man!
|
|
|
|
le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 03:00:57 [Permalink]
|
/I have to address some of the fresh compost DaveW has shoveled onto the computer screen here.
I can't address all of it, there is simply too much. Correcting davew would be a full-time job, and you can't pay me what I'm worth, I don't work that cheap.
Okay: I stated : | I didn't know these beings existed. I didn't know it was possible to pass right through solid objects, be levitated, etc. |
Pretty simple statement, but Davew. feels he has to argue about what I knew and didn't know as a five year old boy. You see, davew INSISTS that when I was abducted at age five, I DID know these beings existed, or I wouldn't be normal!
So, to prove it, davew pulls up a clip from Sesame Street, a show I admitted to watching, as well as cartoons (You can all link to the clip and watch it for yourselves).
By doing so, davew has supported my statement, not weakened it:
You see, folks, these muppets bear absolutely no resemblance of any kind to the alien beings I encountered. None. They resemble Cookie Monster, perhaps, but in no sense do they have any similar characteristic to the creatures I encountered. As I said,I didn't know these beings existed.
Further, I stated clearly, much earlier on, in the days of my/our early abductions, we did not know they were "aliens" or culturally dubbed "aliens", we referred to them as 'men, but not really men', or 'like men'.
These muppets bear as much a resemblance to a narwhal or velociraptor as they do the creatures I encountered.
Same for Marvin the Martian. Same for My Favorite Martian. And the real aliens never said ANYTHING about Mars, or space travel from another planet. There is nothing in common. No fictional cartoon characters claiming to be from Mars, from Herbert George himself to Bill Bixby's uncle, have any similarity to the beings I encountered.
At age five that was about the limit of my exposure; cartoon martians.
But this isn't just a matter of physical dissimilarity. Here's the even bigger truth :
DaveW himself 'doesn't know these beings exist.'To this day. Yet he takes issue with me as a 5 year old not knowing these beings exist? It's hilarious.
What do ALL the alien references davew throws up have in common? Come on. Think. Every alien reference davew names has one important thing in common - They are presented as FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. Pure fiction. Science fiction. Cartoon characters. Muppets. All fictional.
So even if I was aware of EVERY of his fictional aliens, my original statement would be true: | I didn't know these beings existed. I didn't know it was possible to pass right through solid objects, be levitated, etc. |
That was the truth when I said it the first time, and it's the truth now.
Presenting aliens as fictional in no way prepares one for the reality of aliens, in fact is a disservice. You may deny it, but it's a major reason so many of you here can't accept what I say. You have been indoctrinated to associate aliens with fiction. It's only very recently that aliens have begun to be discussed regularly in a serious way on a few cable channels.
Even as I grew, there was no alien on star trek, lost in space, twilight zone that had much in common with the beings we dealt with. Superboy? Chewbacca? Spock? Whorf? ET? Jar Jar Binks?
In no way did the fictional depiction of aliens have much to do with the 'aliens' that took us. It wasn't until Close Encounters that we saw even a SLIGHTLY accurate depiction of the beings we encountered.
FINI
Now, in my next post , I want to discuss some things Kil has brought up that I though were interesting. |
| Edited by - le Penseur on 03/18/2011 03:10:47 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 04:03:30 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by le Penseur
You see, folks, these muppets bear absolutely no resemblance of any kind to the alien beings I encountered. None. |
You've missed the point by miles.| In no way did the fictional depiction of aliens have much to do with the 'aliens' that took us. It wasn't until Close Encounters that we saw even a SLIGHTLY accurate depiction of the beings we encountered. |
This is closer to addressing my point, but historically wrong. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 04:48:22 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by bngbuck
My two kids, now in their early and later forties hardly watched Sesame Street at all. Not that it wasn't available. Their mother was pretty well opposed to anybody watching a lot of daytime television at all, and on top of that, neither one of them were very fond of TV for some reason. We read to them extensively, and we travelled extensively with them, and they just never got hooked on TV. To this day!
I see it at least as a possibility that there were some kids back in the sixties that really were not particularly influenced by kiddie SF on TV. |
I agree. But le Penseur argues that he had an otherwise normal childhood, which would include TV. And magazines, newspapers and movies. And friends who watched TV, etc. le Penseur has already admitted to watching Saturday morning cartoons and reading Mad Magazine, both of which had aliens in them long before 1968. And I find it unbelievable that he wasn't exposed to popular prime-time shows like Star Trek, Lost in Space, The Outer Limits and The Twilight Zone, or exposed to the huge diversity of aliens and powers depicted in the science fiction movies of the 1950s and 1960s.| Le Penseur probably was powerfully influenced by something in order to have the conviction that he does, and the need to express the memories of his experiences publically; again and again. I personally don't feel that it is almost a certainty that exposure to TV or comic books or movies or pop culture in general caused it ("absurd", "laughable", "ludicrous" etc.) |
You've reversed the point. le Penseur is arguing that exposure to pop culture could not have influenced him. That is what's ludicrous.| If he was abducted, there are a million things to learn with enormous consequences for mankind's view of natural events, all of the sciences, etc. |
I agree, but it doesn't appear that le Penseur has any of the answers. Take exopolitics, for example. le Penseur has said that he wasn't even born when some major meetings between the US government and aliens took place, and didn't answer when asked if he were present at any diplomatic encounters. For questions about that field, then, primary sources would be better than his second-hand knowledge.| You guys that are very certain that Le Penseur was not abducted by aliens, may simply be way ahead of me in the reasoning process. I have already stated my impression that Critical Thinking, in all of its manifestations, cannot deliver Absolute Certainty. |
No. All conclusions are tentative. We all agree with you that absolute certainty is generally unreachable.
It's quite possible, for example, that le Penseur's next comment will contain some bit of information that could lead to a reasonable, logical and empirically verifiable conclusion that his aliens do exist. The indications, so far, suggest that that is unlikely (and that any such conclusion would have to come from one of us). His OP informs us directly that his purpose here isn't to deliver any sort of convincing argument or evidence, and his behavior indicates that he's more interested in taking offense than having a discussion. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 11:32:35 [Permalink]
|
davew: | You've missed the point by miles. |
No, davew, it seems you have. By light years, maybe.
Since your last post of compost was directed to bhgbuck, I won't dirty my hands on it.
My next post will address Kil's points. Got things to do now. |
| Edited by - le Penseur on 03/18/2011 11:37:18 |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 11:45:15 [Permalink]
|
Emphasis below mine:
Originally posted by bngbuck
My two kids, now in their early and later forties hardly watched Sesame Street at all. Not that it wasn't available. Their mother was pretty well opposed to anybody watching a lot of daytime television at all, |
And the opposing side of the spectrum is le Penseur's parents who (by his own account) provided him with a TV-set to have in his own room.
I don't buy the story of the sci-fi-virgin mind, and bngbuck's "help" is just another nail in the coffin.
|
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 03/18/2011 12:03:59 |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
