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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2011 : 17:06:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Bottom line is Dave has treated you as well as I have. |
The key is that tolerance doesn't imply either respect or agreement. le Penseur would have us believe that a lack of either is to express hatred and/or intolerance. I tolerate his presence here (if I didn't he'd be gone), but I think his ideas are wrong and I have no respect whatsoever for how he expresses them or deals with criticism (or mockery). That he can't distinguish these things from hatred opens him to more mockery and even less respect, in a vicious downward (and extremely whiny) spiral. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 18:01:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
More hate speech, and you don't even see it. That makes it worse.
We shall overcome! Let my people go! Attica! Attica! You've come a long way baby!
We're here, we're grey, get used to it!
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So, in the end you're just a whining baby?
Figures...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 18:29:50 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
| How very odd. I thought your question was sincere and answered it honestly and with no animosity whatsoever, but that's the one you thought wasn't peaceful and for which you ask to be excused to alcohol consumption? |
Dave, I guess it highlights the different manner by which you and I see many things. In retrospect, after I read Filthy's retort to me....| I'm 'bout ready to give it up, buck. The thread has become all but endless and has generated not a scrap of useful information. |
......I thought to myself: You know, that post I made to Dave was just a piece of nit-picking. And I have complained to high heaven about Dave and others nitpicking LP to death.
So, in a fit of drunken honesty I wrote:| And here's Buck proclaiming he wants peace on Earth, and then firing off something stupid to Dave like pointing out an ambiguous sentence. Is that peaceful? No, it doesn't make a lot of sense. (I had had a couple of nips of Scotch when I made that dumb post...) |
My comment was sincere enough - your statement was ambiguous, IMO - but it was also nit-picking and it was hypocritical of me to throw it at you at the same time I was criticizing you for nitpicking.
It is true that I have no interest in endlessly discussing LP's sanity, logic, lying or not lying, and so forth. I want to hear comment about aliens and a great deal more of it, before I address LP's faults and virtues.
In the future, I have resolved to stay away from spirits of any kind prior to posting. Including the Ghost in the Machine!
I really don't expect members like Humbert and Dr. Mabuse to understand my position because they obviously don't want to understand that position. However, I hope I have cast some light on the "odd" situation you mentioned. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 18:51:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
I really don't expect members like Humbert and Dr. Mabuse to understand my position because they obviously don't want to understand that position. |
I only want you to stop making disparaging comments about the members here. It's a habit you can't seem to break. You supposedly wanted to turn over a new leaf, remember? So why do you feel the need to keep making false statements about what it is we think? Stop putting words into our mouths and stop mischaracterizing our motives, beliefs and intellectual positions. It really should be a simple request for anyone truly interested in maintaining civil community relations.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/21/2011 19:38:48 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 19:44:44 [Permalink]
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Humbert.....
Humbert wrote, in part:
1.Who's stopping him from talking about it?
2.Don't get pissed at us because he's not paying attention to you.
3.Were you also not sober when you wrote this?
4.Or is this the "reformed" you?
5.Because I find your characterization of skeptics to be grossly offensive.
6.But you seem to have this need lately to cast yourself in the role of the perpetually beleaguered agnostic who's only fault is to not be sufficiently close-minded enough to sit with the cool skeptics.
7.Who are these histrionics supposed to be for?
8.The regulars here all know you're full of shit,
9.Is it possible that this is really how you see yourself?
10.How you see us?
11.How could you spend so much time here and still not learn the first thing about what skepticism is even about? |
Humbert.....Thank you for your quiet, constructive commentary. I will briefly respond to the most salient points here and I will give your remarks the consideration that they deserve.
1. No one, to my knowledge.
2. I am not pissed at you
3. I was perfectly sober.
4. I am a work in continuous progress. It is hard to say.
5. I'm sorry about that. I shall strive for plain vanilla offensive in the future.
6. No need. However, I am surprised by your up-to-now hidden expertise in clinical psychology.
7. Anyone reading this thread.
8. All? Are you certain? I felt I had fooled at least two.
9. Full of shit? No.
10.How you be?
11.I am a slow learner. It will take considerably more time. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 19:45:54 [Permalink]
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Humbert : | You are debasing all those who have suffered the affects of real hate speech by playing the persecuted victim card, even though you can't point to any way in which your rights have been curtailed. Truly shameful behavior. That you don't even see it only makes it worse. |
No , Humbert, it is you who are debasing us. I have been victimized. Is that the same thing in your mind as "playing the persecuted victim card"? You say I can't point to any way my rights have been curtailed?
I sure as hell can. It is called the Fourth Amendment to the constitution. | The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. |
Officials of the United States government and the US military entered into agreement with these alien beings, granting them permission to abduct American citizens against their will, without warrant or just cause. This is a horrible ordeal that our Government has agreed to subject its citizens to, and it is completely unconscionable and unconstitutional, it is a violation of the fourth amendment.
What is "truly shameful behavior" is your failure to recognize that, humbert. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 20:04:37 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
| Did you ever know you are my hero? You are the wind beneath my wings! lol |
That is very kind of you and I do reciprocate the thought!
There is only one thing that I might appreciate more, and that would to be to be in receipt of a wind of information from the keyboard beneath your fingers!
Bette Buck |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 20:36:24 [Permalink]
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le Penseur:
Officials of the United States government and the US military entered into agreement with these alien beings, granting them permission to abduct American citizens against their will, without warrant or just cause. This is a horrible ordeal that our Government has agreed to subject its citizens to, and it is completely unconscionable and unconstitutional, it is a violation of the fourth amendment. |
Were this true, they aren't us. No one here is doing any of those things to you, le Penseur. You are tying to defend an indefensible position by claiming that you are the victim of hate speech at this forum. You are here voluntarily, remember? And no one has made any attempt to censure you in any way. You may have been subject to some pretty uncivil words thrown your way, but you have thrown them back too. Such is the unfortunate nature of a fairly open forum sometimes. But a lack of civility isn't synonymous with hate speech. And again, no one is forcing anything on you here at SFN. Your claim of hate speech emanating from this forum is therefor without merit.
You yourself have said that your treatment here has been much better than at the other skeptic forum. And I like you much better when you aren't having a hissy fit. So how about getting over it, eh?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 20:41:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Officials of the United States government and the US military entered into agreement with these alien beings, granting them permission to abduct American citizens against their will, without warrant or just cause. |
So you are against the Greys now? Just a minute ago you were proclaiming your solidarity with them.
| This is a horrible ordeal that our Government has agreed to subject its citizens to, and it is completely unconscionable and unconstitutional, it is a violation of the fourth amendment. |
How would a secret government agreement with interdimensional beings violate an amendment that outlaws unreasonable searches and seizures? Oh, I see. You think the aliens have the government's permission to abduct its citizens, supposedly in exchange for technology. But why would aliens who possess the god-like powers you ascribe to them ever need any human's permission to do anything? The government would be powerless to stop the aliens, at any rate, meaning they can't really be held accountable for not putting an end to these illegal seizures even if they are occurring.
What is "truly shameful behavior" is your failure to recognize that, humbert.
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Ah, so it wasn't a failure to recognize my own hate speech. Glad to see you finally concede that point.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/21/2011 20:49:31 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 21:29:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Officials of the United States government and the US military entered into agreement with these alien beings, granting them permission to abduct American citizens against their will, without warrant or just cause. This is a horrible ordeal that our Government has agreed to subject its citizens to, and it is completely unconscionable and unconstitutional, it is a violation of the fourth amendment. |
I'd love to see those accusations hit a Federal courtroom.
It's still an obvious bait-and-switch regarding your victimization at the hands of the alleged bigots here, though. Have any candidates ever been elected on a pro-abduction platform, so that you could claim the direct complicity of the voters? Or is this entirely an argument of "silence implies consent," in which case you could also argue that the American voters are bigoted against the people whom Bigfoot has raped? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 21:46:34 [Permalink]
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kil: | You yourself have said that your treatment here has been much better than at the other skeptic forum. And I like you much better when you aren't having a hissy fit. So how about getting over it, eh? |
Please remember, I didn't bring any of this into this forum, or accuse you guys of this. It was davew who dug this stuff up from a different forum, and I was put in the position of explaining why I had felt this way.
Then humbert chimed in and called me "truly shameful" for feeling the way I do, and said I couldn't establish any point at which my rights had been violated, So I had to put that malarkey to rest.
Perhaps some fault lies with me for not making it clear enough that when I was shouting "we shall overcome", and "Attica", I was trying to interject some humor into the discussion.
I didn't bring this stuff up at all, but when confronted with it directly by these guys, I had to state that I honestly feel that we abductees have had our rights violated. I really think that being abducted by aliens is to be victimized and oppressed, a violent crime akin to a beating, a kidnapping, or even rape. Beyond rape to forced breeding in many cases.
What makes matters even worse for these people is that when they speak out, they are greeted with ridicule, insults, and attacks on their sanity by ignorant people. Even educated, intelligent ignorant people. It's like being victimized twice. Imagine a rape victim going to the police and being told, "There is no such thing as rape. You must be crazy." That is basically the response abductees get through official channels. Not even any advice on how to stop it from happening again.
I'm not 'playing the victim card', I never brought this up in here, davew did. But this discussion is a topic that comes AFTER people get past the "are they real or not?" phase. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 21:49:22 [Permalink]
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davew | I'd love to see those accusations hit a Federal courtroom. |
Not as much as I would. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 21:51:35 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
| One is that I know le Penseur "has had an abduction experience." Whether that experience was caused by aliens or not is a different question |
I am uncertain as to whether you are included in the undefined group of "nobody in a group of skeptics"
I apologize for the loose definition. I did not specifically mean a literal (in real time and space) alien abduction as opposed to a virtual abduction of some sort or another. I have not yet heard enough to make a decision acceptable to my standards.
However, I suspect there are at least some skeptics, even on SFN, that think a literal alien abduction is a near-impossibility. I may be wrong.| Secondly, I know that le Penseur is unwilling and unable to provide an argument or evidence convincing enough for me to take him seriously. |
We all have our own particular standards. Yours and mine differ. I feel that there is a significant degree of possibility that his story is true, but I must hear a great deal more to reach a firm position one way or another. I do not denounce your standards as to whether listening to more narrative would be useful. My standards are just...different.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with applying Critical Thinking in all of its ramifications to this situation. It certainly suggests a conclusion similar to the one that you have reached. However I feel that, for one example, Occam's (pop version of spelling) Razor sometimes becomes Occam's chain saw. There is no reason to belabor the point. We do understand each other to a reasonable degree.| It'd have to be someone else, perhaps even one of us, who will do the empirical and logical grunt-work necessary to make le Penseur's claims rise to the level of merest plausibility in light of modern science, because he refuses to do so. |
That person might end up being me. Despite my protestations to the contrary, I am schooled in the niceties of Critical Analysis. Much of it is older than your age and mine combined.
It all depends on what and how much Le Penseur decides to reveal. I am certain that I have sufficient time and patience to listen. I am not highly encouraged by his willingnes to explain aliens. Right now, he is too busy returning fire to think seriously about the mission that he described in his OP.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 23:03:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
...or accuse you guys of this. |
Yes, you did. You may not have brought it up in this forum, but you certainly did accuse us of hatred, too.| I'm not 'playing the victim card'... |
You are now. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2011 : 23:22:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
...I thought to myself: You know, that post I made to Dave was just a piece of nit-picking. |
All I saw was a request for clarification. So I clarified. I could see myself asking such a question, so it would have been hypocritical of me to not answer it. I didn't take it as aggressive or petty.
Nitpicking would have been, for a contrived example, to argue that Close Encounters hadn't really been popular because it missed some hypothetical box-office threshold for popularity by $325. You did nothing of the sort, drunk or not.| And I have complained to high heaven about Dave and others nitpicking LP to death. |
I would honestly like to know what parts of my posts you think have been nitpicking of le Penseur's stuff. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
