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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 02/27/2011 : 20:31:48 [Permalink]
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More Bullshit from Dave.
What is your point, exactly? that you would make a better alien abductee than I did?
That you would react the right way, and I reacted the wrong way?
You have no idea what you would do if you had been in my shoes, so stop posturing.
All you've really done in this conversation is waste the opportunity to learn about aliens.
I was indeed a relatively normal boy, despite my experiences.
You claim I wasn't? Fuck you. I think it's clear you're not much of a man. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 20:46:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
More Bullshit from Dave.
What is your point, exactly? that you would make a better alien abductee than I did?
That you would react the right way, and I reacted the wrong way?
You have no idea what you would do if you had been in my shoes, so stop posturing.
All you've really done in this conversation is waste the opportunity to learn about aliens.
I was indeed a relatively normal boy, despite my experiences.
You claim I wasn't? Fuck you. I think it's clear you're not much of a man.
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Bolding mine.
I'm trying to learn about aliens from you. But you will not engage in an actual exchange of information. I need, from you, a way to tell your story apart from fiction. If you can't do that, then you can't offer me any information about aliens at all, you just have a weird story that is going to make people tell you that you are crazy.
So help me out here.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 21:00:21 [Permalink]
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Wellllll...
Not much in the way of intelligent questions, so I guess this may have run its course. A couple of guys trying to play "gotcha" and failing poorly.
Even if your goal all along was to catch me in a contradiction or unnatural reaction, the way to do it would be to ask the big questions and see if I tripped up. All the things you could have asked about.
What do the aliens look like? What are the different species? where do they come from? why are they here? what do they want? why are people being abducted? Whats it like in their ships? how does their telepathy work? do they have weapons? how do they dress? how do they interact with each other? are there leaders? do they have art? music? what do they think of human culture? do they have a religion? what do they think of our religions? do they eat? what do they eat? how do they reproduce?can we stop them if we dont like what they are doing? has our govt had interactions with them, entered into agreements? Do they smell, how cold/arm are they? are they mammals?
can they tell a joke? how strong are they? how old do they live to be. how soon before they accomplish their objective here on Earth? Do they have allies? do they have enemies? how long have they been interacting with us? are they scientific? diplomatic? militaristic>? do they always tell the truth? can they travel in time?
There are so many important areas to discuss, but no one here really was interested. Their minds are already made up. Ah well, I tried.- |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 21:21:09 [Permalink]
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Well, I predicted you would react this way when I asked you my question. There is nothing "gotcha" about my question to you. It is, however, essential to further conversation on this topic. If you can't provide an answer, as you easily can when the topic is almost any other real information exchange, then we can't get into all of the other things you want to talk about.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 21:30:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Wellllll...
Not much in the way of intelligent questions, so I guess this may have run its course. A couple of guys trying to play "gotcha" and failing poorly.
Even if your goal all along was to catch me in a contradiction or unnatural reaction, the way to do it would be to ask the big questions and see if I tripped up. All the things you could have asked about.
What do the aliens look like? What are the different species? where do they come from? why are they here? what do they want? why are people being abducted? Whats it like in their ships? how does their telepathy work? do they have weapons? how do they dress? how do they interact with each other? are there leaders? do they have art? music? what do they think of human culture? do they have a religion? what do they think of our religions? do they eat? what do they eat? how do they reproduce?can we stop them if we dont like what they are doing? has our govt had interactions with them, entered into agreements? Do they smell, how cold/arm are they? are they mammals?
can they tell a joke? how strong are they? how old do they live to be. how soon before they accomplish their objective here on Earth? Do they have allies? do they have enemies? how long have they been interacting with us? are they scientific? diplomatic? militaristic>? do they always tell the truth? can they travel in time?
There are so many important areas to discuss, but no one here really was interested. Their minds are already made up. Ah well, I tried.-
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Well... This is a skeptics site after all. And while I do think your stories are interesting, if you thought that I wasn't going to try to figure what makes you tick, you should look up what it means to be a skeptic.
I mean, look at it from my point of view. I strongly doubt that you or anyone else was abducted by aliens. And we already decided, and you pretty much agreed, that unless there was some kind of physical evidence, there was still reason for us to doubt your claim. Now, speaking for myself, I don't doubt your beliefe in your claim. But I can turn this whole thing around and ask, since there are many many cases of eye witness events that simply didn't happen, are you at all open to that possibility? Of course, I understand how threatening that could be. But really, I don't know you or how secure you are in your belief.
Yeah, I'd like to know about all the stuff you mentioned. But at the same time, it's not very likely that I would accept a word of it on face value because I doubt that any abductions are going on. I do think there are more mundane explanations for what you believe happened to you. Still, I remain all ears.
I think I have been completely honest about that. What I want to know is why you believe what you believe. There are several possible explanations. One of them is yours, though I doubt it.
Try and understand that anecdotal evidence may count in some circles, but it has never counted as evidence among "scientific skeptics." You said it was okay if we didn't believe that you were abducted and just wanted to tell your story. Did you not expect us to ask questions that springs from our point of view? I don't get it.
For my part le Penseur, I would rather you didn't leave...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 22:03:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
More Bullshit from Dave.
What is your point, exactly? |
Well, there's part of the problem right there: you don't know what my point is, but you're willing to call it "bullshit," anyway.| All you've really done in this conversation is waste the opportunity to learn about aliens. |
I've told you what I want to know, twice. You haven't responded to me on those points at all.I was indeed a relatively normal boy, despite my experiences.
You claim I wasn't? Fuck you. |
Part of my point is that anyone who was abducted by aliens most certainly was not a normal boy. This lack of normalcy was obviously not your fault, so why get so angrily defensive about it?
Next comment:| A couple of guys trying to play "gotcha"... |
Not at all.| There are so many important areas to discuss, but no one here really was interested. |
I wanted to know how to stop the abductions and how to get our hands on alien tech. Those areas are certainly important to me. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 01:09:53 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
| I'm well aware these guys are just trying to see at what point I reveal myself to be insane. I can tell by the questions, clearly. If they took me seriously for even one second, I could answer some truly important questions fairly accurately. It's a shame, really. |
LP, please allow me to assure you that I take you seriously and for far more than one second. I cannot speak for Dave, but, so far, there has been far less offhand instant dismissal from him regarding your narrative than is usually the case with postings like yours. I know Kil reasonably well, and I can assure you that he is genuinely interested in hearing the rest of your story. These two Forum owners pretty well set the stage for acceptance or rejection of commentary from newbies here and, so far, you are really being remarkably well-received considering the nature of your commentary.
By and large, as goes Dave and Kil, so goes SFN. Dude seriously considers both Dave W. and Kil as mentors, and you will note that his commentary has changed significantly fron his initial prototypicaly profane name-calling dismissal, to a sensible plea for some way to differentiate your story from pure fiction, pulp or otherwise.This is a remarkable performance for Dude, and it is certainly to his credit to transform so quickly from an adolescent insult thrower into a mature and courteous, although skeptical, member of SFN. Personally, I feel that his request for some evidence other than simply your written word on alien abduction - some way to justify your narrative as described fact rather than literary fiction - is pretty reasonable. I hope you will make that effort eventually.
Currently, I am taking you perfectly seriously! For much more than just one second. Please continue to detail the nature of the aliens and the specifics of your multiple encounters with them.
What specifically could I say regarding taking you seriously that would persuade you to answer some pretty important questions fairly accurately? So far, I am taking you completely at your word. I have seen no reason to consider you a liar or fraud or even a jokester. As your story unfolds, there may appear evidence that such an unusual experience could be hallucination or some other form of delusion, but until you do indeed answer some of the really important questions concerning the origin, nature, purpose, and technical abilities of the aliens that you have encountered, I certainly will continue to listen and withhold any premature judgment as to your "sanity", as you have described it.
Please continue with detailing the alien visitation and abduction experiences that you have had, and I assure you that I, for one at least, have not prejudged you at this time. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 03:03:10 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
Big Papa Smurf said:| So why choose a skeptic forum? Why here of all places if you have no interest in trying to make us believe you? There isn't one regular poster here who is going to take your word for it, are you a masochist? |
Please note that I am a regular poster here [2050 posts) who has clearly stated that I presently take you at your word. I have also asked for your e-mail address, because of my high interest in your narrative and the possibility that you will shortly be bullied off the forum - one of your recent posts said something like "oh well, I tried"
I am attempting to communicate with you, I sincerely apologize if you have been offended by any thing in my posts here directed to you, I currently have an open mind toward your subject matter and I truly want to hear the answers to many of the "big questions" to which you have referred.
Yet you do not respond to my attempts at encouragement. I am not "egging you on", as someone suggested, I truly want to hear your story. And, as another member suggested to you to not pay any attention to me, I would hope that you would pay as much attention to me as you would pay to any other member here that has addressed you.
I have experienced a considerable amount of adverse commentary from various menbers of SFN concerning the possible existence of UAP which has not been explained by balloons, clouds, conventional aircraft, hallucination, etc.
A few years ago I started a thread here as my initial foray into SFN that I intended to initiate a discussion of what those UAP sightings might possibly be that actually did remain unexplained after intensive investigation. I quickly found out that were few - possibly no - members here that felt that such unexplained sightings even existed. Many SFN members at that time appeared certain that I was advocating the existence of extraterrestrial visitors, although I never staed any such thing, and I remain to this day completely agnostic on that issue. Anyway, the thread went on and on for about fifteen pages as I remember, was terminated for technical reasons of excessive length, but I started a follow up thread that actually ran almost as long as the first one until all, including myself, were exhausted.
As my academic training was in psychology, I found the individual attitudes and group dynamics of this group of skeptics to be fascinating; and I still do to this day. Dave recently stated here in this current thread the logistics necessary to retrieve old threads like this, and you might find it interesting to look at them. That is, if you haven't already given up on trying to talk to us.
In any event, I can certainly personally empathize with your discomfort at some of the response you have received here so far. Please note that it is not from everyone, Kil, Dude, myself, and even Dave have all asked you to please continue with your story.Dr. Mabuse has responded to you kindly. I must agree that it becomes a bit absurd when you are asked to produce and deliver a dead or alive ET to someone's doorstep as proof of your crediblity, but that was only one half-serious jibe.
I believe that you are dead serious in your presentation, that you are perfectly sane and quite well-spoken, and I am quite anxious to get past the static and unnecessary complications that you are experiencing and proceed to where we, or only I, if necessary, can ask some of the important questions. Despite encountering what you might perceive as rudeness, criticism, nit-picking, or other annoyances; please persevere and get your full story told. I honestly feel that there are many here that do not want to see you driven away from SFN and are genuinely anticipating the next chapter in your story. I certainly am one! |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 04:13:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Le Penseur.....
| I'm well aware these guys are just trying to see at what point I reveal myself to be insane. I can tell by the questions, clearly. If they took me seriously for even one second, I could answer some truly important questions fairly accurately. It's a shame, really. |
LP, please allow me to assure you that I take you seriously and for far more than one second. I cannot speak for Dave, but, so far, there has been far less offhand instant dismissal from him regarding your narrative than is usually the case with postings like yours. I know Kil reasonably well, and I can assure you that he is genuinely interested in hearing the rest of your story. These two Forum owners pretty well set the stage for acceptance or rejection of commentary from newbies here and, so far, you are really being remarkably well-received considering the nature of your commentary.
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The way you've been poisoning the well, are you surprised at all over the deterioration of this thread?
I hope you're satisfied. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 05:06:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Le Penseur.....
Big Papa Smurf said:| So why choose a skeptic forum? Why here of all places if you have no interest in trying to make us believe you? There isn't one regular poster here who is going to take your word for it, are you a masochist? |
Please note that I am a regular poster here [2050 posts) who has clearly stated that I presently take you at your word.... |
I don't count you, bng, clearly you exist on a higher plane then the rest of us. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 08:52:22 [Permalink]
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Dr. Mabuse.....
The way you've been poisoning the well, are you surprised at all over the deterioration of this thread?
I hope you're satisfied. |
You drink from strange waters, Mabuse. From the irrationality of that comment, I suppose it would be pointless to ask exactly what you mean by it. I truly have not the slightest comprehension of either your intent or purpose as regards "poisoning the well"
BPS was obviously offering a rather clever and sharp jab of sarcasm and I got a smile from his wit; but I utterly fail to understand where I have been derogating you? Would it be too much to ask you to explain it to me?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 09:21:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
but I utterly fail to understand where I have been derogating you? |
Until this very post, not me but other members.
| From the irrationality of that comment, I suppose it would be pointless to ask exactly what you mean by it. |
Now, I feel included too.
| I truly have not the slightest comprehension of either your intent or purpose as regards "poisoning the well" |
Your rant against Dave. W and Dude for example. Most of your postings in this thread has been about other members of SFN, rather than le Penseur and his reason for being here.
Edited to add:
Your unasked-for attempt at mediation has been an utter failure, and in my opinion only made things worse. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 02/28/2011 09:27:30 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 09:56:59 [Permalink]
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Moakley.....
| An alien corpse would be a very good start. Far superior to a personal testimony of alien abduction. |
Le Penseur is not claiming that he possesses supernatural powers. Logistically, how would you suggest that he acquire and transport an alien corpse to a place where you or anyone else could examine it?
He is claiming that he and his family have had personal experience and interaction with aliens. It is indeed an extraordinary claim, but no one yet here has suggested the exact, defined "evidence" that it would be possible for him to offer by, as he says, "typing on an Internet forum."
I think his point is well taken that the proper role of a proper skeptic on a skeptics forum would be to listen carefully to his descriptions and definitions of alien life, to which he has been extensively exposed, and then ask questions designed to clarify whether or not such descriptions are closer to fantasy or fact. Repeated requests for presentation of alive or dead aliens for actual physical viewing and examination are unrealistic given that Le Penseur presents himself as an ordinary human being that has had some extraordinary experiences.
If these postings of Le Penseur were coming instead from a high-ranking officer of the US Air Force, claiming that Roswell indeed was a true story and small grey beings were in Air Force custody, then I would think it would be appropriate for anyone here to demand "put up or shut up", as the US Air Force would presumeably have the actual ability to demonstrate the physical evidence of aliens to the public at large. Such a scenario is obviously ridiculous and is not about to happen; or it would have long ago.
But, think about it. What, precisely described, evidence would it be possible for a person like Le Penseur who claims abduction and interaction with aliens - to actually provide to folks here on the SFN forums, or for that matter, to any one else? All that we exchange and deal with on these Forums are words. Words, in and of themselves, cannot constitute the evidence that many here are asking for.
What we (SFN members) want is real, tangible, touchable objects (dead or alive aliens) to examine and decide as to their authenticity. How would it be possible for any individual like Le Penseur to provide such evidence to you, to me, to the news media, to the public as a whole? When we ask for evidence, is it not reasonable to ask for evidence that actually would be possible for a claimant to deliver? |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 10:17:01 [Permalink]
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Hawks.....
| Let me be "mean-spirited" and suggest that the evidence we can expect will be, in what is most likely lots of short posts, "blah, blah"... |
I do not think that you are "mean spirited", nor am I; but please describe the exact nature of the evidence that would not be "blah, blah, blah", but would either satisfy you or at least sway you closer to thinking that LP's claims were possible? Evidence that LP could actually obtain and place in a location where you could physically examine it?
If that evidence is a dead or alive alien, is it reasonable to believe that LP somehow has the ability to kill an alien in order to provide a dead body, or perhaps incapacitate and capture a live alien and bring it to you or me? I ask you, as I have others, to describe evidence that it is actually possible for LP to provide, other than words, or "blah, blah, blah", as you describe them. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2011 : 12:09:29 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
Dave commented:
You could have, for example, just talked about what you want to talk about and ignored any nastiness you might have perceived, but instead you chose to engage in a pissing match about standards of evidence on an Internet forum. Now, I don't mind pissing matches, but you seemed to be earlier stating your aversion to such theatrics. Is it really more important to you to discuss the tone of the others here than what you really want to discuss? Is that what you want to spend your time on? |
LP, Dave is asking you here to turn the other cheek in the biblical sense of what JC avocated to his followers. Although I take considerable issue with most of the JC story, this is probably pretty good advice in this forum.
As I said before, this is not a place for the thin-skinned, and although Dave is not adverse to an occasional spell of whining himself, what real good is insult returned? I have done a great deal of it here on SFN, and I have also initiated far too much whether for good reason or not. Insult exchange really doesn't contribute to learning anything and I personally am attempting to mature (I am 82) sufficiently to be able to genuinely smile at the frequent name-calling or more sophisticated implication derogation that one who does not conform to the group norm inevitably encounters here!
It is not easy to refrain from reverting to childish habits of tit for tat! They are so much fun, especially when you are skilled at it. But it really doesn't accomplish much except a very temporary feeling of triumph. I hope you can get your way past the commentary of some of the less complicated folks here and also the very complicated Dave's devilishly detailed dissection and parsing of every thought you express. There is a lot to be learned here at SFN. But there is no free lunch here any more than there is in the real world! You pretty much get what you pay for! |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
