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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2011 : 19:28:02 [Permalink]
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Dear Dave W. and Dude, Sorry you find this hard to understand but not each and every word I write is a scientific hypothesis. You will find the following germane to the topic.
Agnosticism is not a middle ground!#8207; - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvd4lM8tpqE |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2011 : 19:45:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Dave W. and Dude, Sorry you find this hard to understand but not each and every word I write is a scientific hypothesis. You will find the following germane to the topic.
Agnosticism is not a middle ground!#8207; - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvd4lM8tpqE
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Every time you post and fail to answer my question you admit that you can't answer it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2011 : 20:37:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Dude...
You are right that I can't prove the imaginary gods in your head are real.
(emphasis added)
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Shall we remind Officiant how this part of the discussion started?
Dude:
| ...you can't really say anything about it because the claims are untestable in principle. |
Officiant:
| This is wishful thinking. Science can examine anything. |
So, in other words, Officiant is now admitting that he was wrong when he said that science could test untestable claims. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2011 : 21:50:02 [Permalink]
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I can't believe anyone would seriously argue that there are no powerful, atheist conservatives who humor and even throw big bones to the religious right in order to secure votes and better maintain power. Really? Really?
Dick Cheney is a member of the United Methodist Church. Could he be an atheist? Sure could. Lots of atheists who can benefit in their career by being a "member" of a church can easily hide in nice, mainline Protestant sects. Lori Lipman Brown (a liberal, Democrat, and atheist-humanist) talked about how when she was a politician she made a point of being a member of a UU Church (which is technically a Christian sect) so that when she was asked questions about religion she could say she goes to church. As far as Karl Rove goes, there is reason to believe that even if he is a member of an evangelical church, he is not personally a believer. Plenty of Jewish neoconservatives such as Paul Wolfowitz worked for and/or supported supported the Bush Presidency. And lord knows plenty of ethnically Jewish people are atheists. And even among the ones who are religiously Jewish too, why the fuck are they supporting the Christian religious right? Officiant, if you can't see that it is perfectly within human nature for enemies to form alliances for the sake of obtaining mutual power, you are a blind fool. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/28/2011 21:52:28 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2011 : 22:40:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Dave W. and Dude, Sorry you find this hard to understand but not each and every word I write is a scientific hypothesis. |
Okay, so therefore your statement, "Agnostic atheists are cowardly pseudo-intellectual dilettantes," must not refer to any sort of practical, real-world question. Therefore, agnosticism isn't a practical, real-world concern with regard to the poison that you say religion is. Therefore, I can't possibly be supporting anyone's religion merely by calling myself an agnostic atheist (since that would be a practical, real-world concern). You have refuted your own statements. How embarrassing that must be for you.Since I am a Dawkins-style category six, I already knew that agnosticism isn't a middle ground. You are the only person here claiming that it is, but that's because you're so willfully ignorant of the subject that you can't even comprehend the books you quote. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 06:41:48 [Permalink]
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Dave wrote about Officiant: | you're so willfully ignorant of the subject that you can't even comprehend the books you quote. |
This entire thread, I keep being reminded of this quote from that fabulous freethinker Bertrant Russell: | A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. |
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 08:19:00 [Permalink]
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Dear marfknox et al, You write about a "teeny tiny minority of terrorists" as though they are trivial and nothing to worry about. Have you heard about 9/11? That was not so teeny tiny was it? Their teeny tiny bombs in suicide vests have caused huge numbers of deaths and the maiming of innocents. We recently had the trial here in Canada known as the Toronto 18. These boys were born and educated in Canada and they planned to plant a large bomb in the financial district. Home grown terrorists.
As I said before it is possible to hate Islam without hating Muslims but if you are not a teeny tiny bit afraid you are oblivious and not apprised of the situation. Here's something to feed Islamophobia.
Islam & Muslims conquer Europe, pissing crap in Paris France, Uh ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j372uC30lyg5 min - 3 Sep 2010 - Uploaded by CCKrusader
Muslims invade and piss shit everywhere on the streets of once ... Islam & Muslims conquer Europe, pissing crap in Paris France, Uh .. |
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 08:27:21 [Permalink]
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Dear Dude and Dave W., Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein Apply this to agnosticism. A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
Albert Einstein |
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 08:49:22 [Permalink]
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| Dear marfknox, So now are you asking if Dick Cheney is an atheist? Seems you stepping back a bit. Karl Rove goes to church and Thomas Huxley attended at church all his life. Here's an idea. Since these guys are such scumbags; it would not be surprising to find out they are agnostics would it? |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 09:07:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Dude and Dave W., Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein Apply this to agnosticism. A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
Albert Einstein
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The quote absolutely supports being agnostic. It's in support support of science and empiricism, which is what being agnostic is about. Your 7 on the scale Officiant is your position because you think it's what should be. It's not an empirically supported position. 7 is a faith based position.
How you thought that quote might be a problem for agnostics, I have no idea.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 09:10:47 [Permalink]
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| If I may be so bold, perhaps it is time for a master list of questions posed of Officiant that he has avoided answering (a cowardly act in itself) |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 09:31:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
If I may be so bold, perhaps it is time for a master list of questions posed of Officiant that he has avoided answering (a cowardly act in itself)
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We've done that before. IIRC, it was latinijral that we had to do it to.
He'd trapse off claiming things left and right and never supported any of them.
Let's give it a go with Officiant here.
I remember that doing that and insisting that latinijral respond, he got pretty nasty and he got banned fro being threatening.
If you'd like to compile the list, I'd love to see it. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 09:33:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear marfknox, So now are you asking if Dick Cheney is an atheist? Seems you stepping back a bit. Karl Rove goes to church and Thomas Huxley attended at church all his life. Here's an idea. Since these guys are such scumbags; it would not be surprising to find out they are agnostics would it?
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Did you just call Thomas Huxley a scumbag?
You know what? You keep denigrating Thomas Huxley. And considering what he was doing, I find that to be simply amazing for any freethinker, no matter how they define themselves. Huxley promoted Darwins views on evolution against some of its greatest attackers from Catholicism and the Church of England who at the time had great sway over public opinion and what could be considered legitimate science. There is a reason he's called "Darwins Bulldog."
That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can produce evidence which logically justifies that certainty. That is what agnosticism asserts and, in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism. - Thomas Huxley
The above quote is Huxley telling the church that just because they say that they know the answers, it ain't so, and it will never be so unless they can provide evidence that it is so. This is a basic tenet of science, or any conclusion or big T truth that is faith based. It's basic to atheism and agnosticism (except for your version of atheism which is faith based.)
I have pointed out where you have leveled ad homenim attacks at Huxely, you have lied about Huxely with regard to his progressiveness in light of the culture he lived in, using a well known church and creationist argument to do so. You get chummy with a lot of very wrongheaded people to make your point, and why? Only because they too are attacking Huxley because they are the defending their faith, just as you are defending yours.
What you should be doing is thanking Huxley for standing up for what was right. SCIENCE!!! But in your pettiness, and your hatred (and willful misunderstanding of agnosticism, as Huxley defined it and I accept) you would rather side with the enemies of science because it suits your prejudices.
And that 's what this all boils down to. You are a bigot and are willing to align yourself with any other bigot, as long as they say at least one thing that confirms your bias.
You twist and torture Dawkins and what any other scientist have said, again to conform to your bias.
This is not critical thinking. This is hate mongering.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 09:45:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Dude and Dave W., Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein Apply this to agnosticism. A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.
Albert Einstein
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You can silence me and get me to retract my position by doing one simple thing. Describe a way to test and prove that there is a reality outside of your mind.
If you can't, and you can't, then you need to admit your error, acknowledge agnosticism as the default position with regard to untestable (and untested) claims, and apologize for your rank ignorance.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2011 : 11:55:32 [Permalink]
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Kil, You failed to address my question. Please give me an example of how Michael Shermer, Penn Jillettte, Ron Paul and Rand Paul support aspects of what the religious right is doing because it benefits them. I was referring to Dick Cheney and Karl Rove as the scumbags. So why did Huxley go to church?
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Cowardly Agnostics
Topic Locked
