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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 10/23/2011 : 16:25:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
But it is not that easy to dismiss 60% of Americans who do not believe monkey theories support homosexuality in modern American societies... |
They don't, because they are different 60% groups.
Besides, at most, 31% of people disbelieve Darwinism in all its forms. You can't lump "evolved, but don't know how" with "didn't evolve" and think your result is in any way valid.
So even if everyone who accepts modern evolutionary theory also accepts the idea of homosexual marriage (and they don't), there's still plenty of "evolved with God's help" and "evolved, but don't know how" and "don't know" people to make up the gap from 32% to 57% without any help from the "didn't evolve" camp.
There's no discrepancy here, you're just using made-up numbers to put forth a nonsensical argument. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2011 : 18:34:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
That would be too easy to concede. But it is not that easy to dismiss 60% of Americans who do not believe monkey theories support homosexuality in modern American societies despite graphic similarities in backside coloration between monkeys and humans when appropriately stimulated.
There is a reason why most Americans stick to their guns, religion and traditional values. The Biblical Eve tempted Adam after being coached by the serpent in the garden of Eden. Man has since learnt to play victim and count their blessings.
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Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Oh, wait. You aren't joking.
How sad.
61% of your example understand that evolution happens.
You also continue to beat the strawman that evolution is Darwinism. I has moved beyond Darwin as tools and evidence piled up and refined the assumptions.
Your assumption about religion isn't supportable Biblically or scientifically.
I'm actually being nice here because I added the 8% of the refused to answer into the 31% nutjobs that categorically deny evolution based on religious arguments and not scientific ones.
I also note your childish posting of pictures completely unrelated to the topic. Quite the agent provocateur, aren't we?
Kinda boring, really. Seen worse by bozoes who got banned here long ago. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 06:37:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
You also continue to beat the strawman that evolution is Darwinism.
I has moved beyond Darwin as tools and evidence piled up and refined the assumptions.
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So you don't see evolution as Darwinism. Darwinian theories of evolution is the corner stone of modern Evolution Theory. If Darwin's theory of evolution is discarded then there is no basis for much of what is being built on Darwin's Evolutionary foundation.
What have you moved to after moving away from Darwin? Most Americans have moved back to god after the reckless seesaw ride and Evolution Theorist failed to deliver.
Dr Lovejoy is a good clean fresh start. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 06:49:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
So you don't see evolution as Darwinism. Darwinian theories of evolution is the corner stone of modern Evolution Theory. |
In the broadest terms. Darwin didn't know the details. We now do. Genetic drift and Punctuated Equilibria aren't Darwinian notions. Strict adaptationism is known to be false.| If Darwin's theory of evolution is discarded then there is no basis for much of what is being built on Darwin's Evolutionary foundation. |
The basis for all theories is the evidence, and not any prior theory.| Dr Lovejoy is a good clean fresh start. |
You go ahead and email Dr. Lovejoy, and suggest to him that his ideas are "a good clean fresh start" after a rejection of Darwinism and modern evolutionary theory, and see if he doesn't laugh in your face, if he replies at all. All that Lovejoy proposed was a minor tweaking of the great ape family tree, not a wholesale rewriting of any biological theory. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 07:08:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
So you don't see evolution as Darwinism. Darwinian theories of evolution is the corner stone of modern Evolution Theory. |
In the broadest terms. Darwin didn't know the details. We now do. Genetic drift and Punctuated Equilibria aren't Darwinian notions. Strict adaptationism is known to be false.| If Darwin's theory of evolution is discarded then there is no basis for much of what is being built on Darwin's Evolutionary foundation. |
The basis for all theories is the evidence, and not any prior theory.| Dr Lovejoy is a good clean fresh start. |
You go ahead and email Dr. Lovejoy, and suggest to him that his ideas are "a good clean fresh start" after a rejection of Darwinism and modern evolutionary theory, and see if he doesn't laugh in your face, if he replies at all. All that Lovejoy proposed was a minor tweaking of the great ape family tree, not a wholesale rewriting of any biological theory.
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Natural selection is one of the cornerstones of modern biology. The term was introduced by Darwin in his influential 1859 book On the Origin of Species.
The concept of natural selection was originally developed in the absence of a valid theory of heredity; at the time of Darwin's writing, nothing was known of modern genetics. The union of traditional Darwinian evolution with subsequent discoveries in classical and molecular genetics is termed the modern evolutionary synthesis. Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution.
"Genetic drift is one of the major mechanisms that drive evolution."
"Punctuated equilibrium (also called punctuated equilibria) is a theory in evolutionary biology."
Repeat Natural selection is one of the cornerstones of modern biology. Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 07:21:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Natural selection is one of the cornerstones of modern biology. The term was introduced by Darwin in his influential 1859 book On the Origin of Species.
The concept of natural selection was originally developed in the absence of a valid theory of heredity; at the time of Darwin's writing, nothing was known of modern genetics. The union of traditional Darwinian evolution with subsequent discoveries in classical and molecular genetics is termed the modern evolutionary synthesis. Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution.
"Genetic drift is one of the major mechanisms that drive evolution."
"Punctuated equilibrium (also called punctuated equilibria) is a theory in evolutionary biology."
Repeat Natural selection is one of the cornerstones of modern biology. Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution. |
I agree with all of the above. How, exactly, is it a response to what I said? How, exactly, does it relate to Dr. Lovejoy? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 08:57:32 [Permalink]
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justintime:
Dr Lovejoy is a good clean fresh start. |
There is a fairly long list of people who have contributed to our understanding of human evolution. Every time an important gap is filled, we learn more. And I don't know why you are so focused on Owen Lovejoy with regard to Ardi? What was Tim White? Chop liver? How about Ardi?
A "good clean fresh start" from what? Ardi may have caused us to think of our family tree somewhat differently, but so has every major find, including those made by the Leaky's, Johanson, White and the people who came before them. It's like putting together a puzzle with the pieces you have. The more pieces, the more complete the puzzle. And so you base your interpretation of what the complete puzzle will look like with what you have. And that's subject to change with the introduction of new pieces. That's what happened here with Ardi. That's what happend with Lucy. That's what happend with the finds of the australopithecines (of which there are many) and Homo habilis and so on. Ardi wasn't the first time our ancestry has been rethought, and she won't be the last. And that's how it is with all of paleontology. That's part of the fun of it.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 09:12:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
Natural selection is one of the cornerstones of modern biology. The term was introduced by Darwin in his influential 1859 book On the Origin of Species.
The concept of natural selection was originally developed in the absence of a valid theory of heredity; at the time of Darwin's writing, nothing was known of modern genetics. The union of traditional Darwinian evolution with subsequent discoveries in classical and molecular genetics is termed the modern evolutionary synthesis. Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution.
"Genetic drift is one of the major mechanisms that drive evolution."
"Punctuated equilibrium (also called punctuated equilibria) is a theory in evolutionary biology."
Repeat Natural selection is one of the cornerstones of modern biology. Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution. |
I agree with all of the above. How, exactly, is it a response to what I said? How, exactly, does it relate to Dr. Lovejoy?
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DaveW wrote
Strict adaptationism is known to be false. |
Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution.
DaveW wrote
In the broadest terms. Darwin didn't know the details. |
No modern evolutionary biology has proven Darwin wrong. New evidence and advancements in molecular science only further supports his conclusions. That is why Natural Selection is the cornerstone of modern biology.
DaveW wrote
The basis for all theories is the evidence, and not any prior theory. |
The theory is Darwins Evolution Theory. All new evidence is used to verify/advance Darwins Evolution Theory so it accepted as a FACT and a LAW and no longer a THEORY.
DaveW wrote
All that Lovejoy proposed was a minor tweaking of the great ape family tree, not a wholesale rewriting of any biological theory. |
Dr Lovejoy is not tinkering alongt the edges of Darwins Evolution Theory. Dr Lovejoy believes Darwin is wrong. Ardi proves Darwin was wrong according to him. Dr Lovejoy is not rewriting Darwins Evolution Theory. He is pointing to the evolution of Humans where Ardi contradicts Darwins chimpanzee like human ancestors.
In the video Dr Lovejoy said;
The most striking thing is everybody in the world upto now has thought we have evolved from something that was chimpanzee like.. It turns out that chimpanzees have evolved from something that is more human like. And so the evolution that we see is pretty much the reverse of what we thought. Darwin's theory was pretty good but completely wrong based on the new evidence (obviously Ardi) according to Dr Lovejoy. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 09:42:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
DaveW wrote
Strict adaptationism is known to be false. |
Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution. |
Yes, but when evolution isn't adaptive, natural selection doesn't explain it. DaveW wrote
In the broadest terms. Darwin didn't know the details. |
No modern evolutionary biology has proven Darwin wrong. |
Go find out what Darwin thought was inside cells, then tell me that he wasn't wrong about some stuff.| ...so it accepted as a FACT and a LAW and no longer a THEORY. |
You have to be completely ignorant of what a theory is to make such a statement.Dr Lovejoy is not tinkering alongt the edges of Darwins Evolution Theory. Dr Lovejoy believes Darwin is wrong. Ardi proves Darwin was wrong according to him. Dr Lovejoy is not rewriting Darwins Evolution Theory. He is pointing to the evolution of Humans where Ardi contradicts Darwins chimpanzee like human ancestors.
In the video Dr Lovejoy said;
The most striking thing is everybody in the world upto now has thought we have evolved from something that was chimpanzee like.. It turns out that chimpanzees have evolved from something that is more human like. And so the evolution that we see is pretty much the reverse of what we thought. Darwin's theory was pretty good but completely wrong based on the new evidence (obviously Ardi) according to Dr Lovejoy. |
Well, I guess Dr. Lovejoy thinks you are full of shit when you claim "No modern evolutionary biology has proven Darwin wrong."
So if you're correct, then Lovejoy is wrong. If Lovejoy is correct, then you are wrong. Which shall it be, justintime? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 09:59:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
DaveW wrote
Strict adaptationism is known to be false. |
Natural selection remains the primary explanation for adaptive evolution. |
Yes, but when evolution isn't adaptive, natural selection doesn't explain it. DaveW wrote
In the broadest terms. Darwin didn't know the details. |
No modern evolutionary biology has proven Darwin wrong. |
Go find out what Darwin thought was inside cells, then tell me that he wasn't wrong about some stuff.| ...so it accepted as a FACT and a LAW and no longer a THEORY. |
You have to be completely ignorant of what a theory is to make such a statement.Dr Lovejoy is not tinkering alongt the edges of Darwins Evolution Theory. Dr Lovejoy believes Darwin is wrong. Ardi proves Darwin was wrong according to him. Dr Lovejoy is not rewriting Darwins Evolution Theory. He is pointing to the evolution of Humans where Ardi contradicts Darwins chimpanzee like human ancestors.
In the video Dr Lovejoy said;
The most striking thing is everybody in the world upto now has thought we have evolved from something that was chimpanzee like.. It turns out that chimpanzees have evolved from something that is more human like. And so the evolution that we see is pretty much the reverse of what we thought. Darwin's theory was pretty good but completely wrong based on the new evidence (obviously Ardi) according to Dr Lovejoy. |
Well, I guess Dr. Lovejoy thinks you are full of shit when you claim "No modern evolutionary biology has proven Darwin wrong."
So if you're correct, then Lovejoy is wrong. If Lovejoy is correct, then you are wrong. Which shall it be, justintime?
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You are too hasty DaveW. Darwin's Evolution Theory has been around for over a 100 years. Dr Lovejoy is about 15 years into this new discovery.
He claims Darwin is wrong. We just have to be patient and wait as more evidence fully buries Darwin.
I fully agree with Dr Lovejoy and we should throw out all the old books on evolution.
But not everyone fully grasp the significance of Dr Lovejoys discovery and conclusion so we have to wait for them to catch up. Like I am doing here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 10:12:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
You are too hasty DaveW. Darwin's Evolution Theory has been around for over a 100 years. Dr Lovejoy is about 15 years into this new discovery.
He claims Darwin is wrong. We just have to be patient and wait as more evidence fully buries Darwin.
I fully agree with Dr Lovejoy and we should throw out all the old books on evolution.
But not everyone fully grasp the significance of Dr Lovejoys discovery and conclusion so we have to wait for them to catch up. Like I am doing here. |
I expect this sort of idiocy from people who don't know what a fact, law or theory is. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 11:27:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
But not everyone fully grasp the significance of Dr Lovejoys discovery and conclusion so we have to wait for them to catch up. Like I am doing here. |
Except that your knowledge of evolution is inadequate, by your own standards. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 11:34:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
But not everyone fully grasp the significance of Dr Lovejoys discovery and conclusion so we have to wait for them to catch up. Like I am doing here. |
Except that your knowledge of evolution is inadequate, by your own standards.
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Can you provide proof you are qualified to make such judgments. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 11:37:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Can you provide proof you are qualified to make such judgments. |
Yes, you said that no degree means inadequate knowledge. Since I haven't seen your degree, I can conclude that you have inadequate knowledge. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 11:55:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
Can you provide proof you are qualified to make such judgments. |
Yes, you said that no degree means inadequate knowledge. Since I haven't seen your degree, I can conclude that you have inadequate knowledge.
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I think since you guys take the liberty to attack everything that is being said here. You have the burden to prove you are qualified to do so. Or every debate will end up like a CRUX versus DaveW 60 pages of unwarranted diatribes. |
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Evolution Questions
