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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2013 : 23:40:42 [Permalink]
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Dave:
Actually, Kil would have topped the list if he hadn't kicked that puppy... |
Self defense. I'm pretty sure it was planning to bite me. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 04:34:07 [Permalink]
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| Yeah, Dave. It must be pretty tough for you being the only Skeptic who is always right. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 04/18/2013 : 05:07:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Yeah, Dave. It must be pretty tough for you being the only Skeptic who is always right. |
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 07:21:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Kil
Where do you get "millions of dollars" from? |
The plural seems to be wrong. It seems like one million is the figure being discussed. And, of course, Dunning didn't pocket the whole amount himself.
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This was posted at Pharyngula: The company in which Dunning was part owner, Kessler’s Flying Circus (KFC), was bringing in a rather noticeably large sum of money from this one little trick.| 7. KFC was a member of the Affiliate Program. In 2006, KFC received approximately $2,000,000 in compensation from the eBay Affiliate Program in the United States. Between January and June 2007, KFC earned approximately $3,300,000 in compensation from the eBay Affiliate Program in the United States. |
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Even after splitting half of those profits with his brother, Dunning was making about $1.2 million a year through this scam.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 07:31:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Even after splitting half of those profits with his brother, Dunning was making about $1.2 million a year through this scam. |
Dunning claims to have gotten only a small slice of the pie, because of numerous other people being involved. Plus, I don't think eBay is claiming that 100% of the fees paid to Dunning's companies were fraudulent. I believe the companies did have legitimate eBay links on their web pages, along with the cookie-stuffing scheme.
There will be a hearing regarding the amount of the loss on August 8th. Regardless the outcome of that, there will undoubtedly be a plea deal in which Dunning will stipulate to having fraudulently acquired some amount of money, a figure the lawyers will negotiate to be somewhere between one dollar and millions. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 10:40:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Dude:
Also, I was thinking the same thing as the Pharyngula comment Dave_W pointed out, Dunning used his fan base as a tool to steal millions of dollars. That makes it worse. |
Where do you get "millions of dollars" from?
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http://www.skepticalabyss.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/dunning-superceding-information.pdf
Page three lists specific amounts for 2006 and 2007. $2M and $3.3M respectively. As Dunning is the sole defendant in this case, it seems that "millions" is the appropriate word.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 12:43:59 [Permalink]
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Section 22 of the superceding information states in part,[T]he affiliate was not entitled to compensation from eBay with respect to the vast majority of revenue actions. So KFC was entitled to the rest, and some part of the $5.3 million mentioned was earned honestly. "The vast majority of revenue actions" were probably worth only pennies each, too. I could easily see a scenario in which the legitimately driven eBay traffic was targeted big-spenders biased towards very high-priced items (cars and real estate), while the random traffic hooked by the fraudulent cookies would only generate tiny amounts of revenue each. This could lead to a situation in which "the vast majority of revenue actions" would be responsible for only a minority of affiliate compensation.
If Dunning is correct when he claims to have spent more on lawyers than he ever made from eBay, then it's reasonable to think that he personally made much, much less than one million from the scheme. He was indicted on June 24th, 2010 and made the preceding claim on October 5, 2011. A lawyer making $500 an hour would have to put in 2,000 hours to make a million bucks, in only 468 calendar days, or more than four hours of work each and every day on this one case in which the defendant appears to be saying, "yeah, I did it, but the victim knew I was doing it!" I don't buy it. If Dunning's claim is correct, it seems unlikely to me that he received much more than 100 grand of the stolen money.
If he's lying, well all bets are off.
(His bail, by the way, was $100K. I don't know if bail in wire fraud cases is usually in any way proportional to the amount of money involved.)
But, as above, we won't know for sure until August 8 when there will be a hearing on how much money was actually fraudulently gained. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 13:35:32 [Permalink]
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| I've just 'unliked' his facebook page. It will take a while to get the bad taste out of my mouth. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 15:57:09 [Permalink]
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| Making that kind of money off of ebay alone and hawking for continuing micro donations from listeners to support his podcast. "Say it ain't so Joe!" I'm a bit surprised. It decries any claims or suggestion of 100% altruistic motives. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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PhilipCohen
New Member
Australia
1 Post |
Posted - 05/03/2013 : 22:02:53 [Permalink]
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“How eBay Worked With The FBI To Put Its Top Affiliate Marketers In Prison”
http://www.businessinsider.com/ebay-the-fbi-shawn-hogan-and-brian-dunning-2013-4
‘EBay, in a statement, told Business Insider, "eBay has zero tolerance for criminal activity on its platforms; and, we are pleased that justice has been served in this matter."’
So, someone allegedly defrauded eBay. What then about the FBI investigating eBay’s own massive criminal activities? eBay is demonstrably the greatest calculated facilitator of auction wire fraud on consumers that the world is ever likely to know …
The ugly reality for consumers dealing with this clunky, unscrupulous, manipulative (and atrophying) eBay criminal enterprise ...
"eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #5" ... http://bit.ly/11F2eas
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2013 : 15:47:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by PhilipCohen
So, someone allegedly defrauded eBay. What then about the FBI investigating eBay’s own massive criminal activities? eBay is demonstrably the greatest calculated facilitator of auction wire fraud on consumers that the world is ever likely to know … |
Welcome to the SFN, and thank you for that perfect demonstration of the Tu Quoque fallacy.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2013 : 11:25:17 [Permalink]
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And I host the archive of the Skeptoid Newsletter's Wacko of the Week at Gallery of Wackos. It helps bring traffic to Skeptoid (and rants to me), and I do it for free. I feel like a schmuck to have donated time and money regularly to Brian Dunning, including $50 to help recover a crashed hard drive. I cancelled my monthly donation to Skeptoid. But I will maintain the gallery since it helps the skeptical cause.
Oh, and that's me in the "Your Brain Sucks" video @ 12:22. I exemplify what he was talking about as my mind went blank when asked for single-word answers.
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| Edited by - ThorGoLucky on 05/05/2013 11:31:53 |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 20:58:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by PhilipCohen
So, someone allegedly defrauded eBay. What then about the FBI investigating eBay’s own massive criminal activities? eBay is demonstrably the greatest calculated facilitator of auction wire fraud on consumers that the world is ever likely to know … |
Welcome to the SFN, and thank you for that perfect demonstration of the Tu Quoque fallacy.
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Maybe so, but this whole topic is an example of poisoning the well. No one felt the need to point that out. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 22:51:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Maybe so, but this whole topic is an example of poisoning the well. |
How so? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 01:59:54 [Permalink]
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| because a persons legal issues have no bearing on whether they are a good skeptic. It's a moral issue and skepticism is amoral. |
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Brian Dunning has pleaded guilty to wire fraud
