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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 09:29:25 [Permalink]
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by Convinced
Do unchanging moral truths exist? |
Apparently not. Xians like William Lane Craig have no problem with babies being killed, so long as god is the one ordering it. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 06/20/2013 09:31:05 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 06/20/2013 : 12:38:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
| Originally posted by Dave W.And? Different Wild Cards stories attest to others in the series. Doesn't make any of them more true. |
I agree but none of those have any eyewitness testimony that anything in that anthology actually happened or any fulfilled prophesy. |
What eyewitness testimony? Everyone from that era is dead.
But Spiderman lives in New York. New York! Not some old city that had it's wall razed by poor masonry and a small earthquake. I know he's real, because I read it in Avengers. And Fantastic Four. There are plenty of eyewitness reports including TV news broadcast.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 15:03:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Convinced
| Originally posted by Dave W.And? Different Wild Cards stories attest to others in the series. Doesn't make any of them more true. |
I agree but none of those have any eyewitness testimony that anything in that anthology actually happened or any fulfilled prophesy. |
What eyewitness testimony? Everyone from that era is dead.
But Spiderman lives in New York. New York! Not some old city that had it's wall razed by poor masonry and a small earthquake. I know he's real, because I read it in Avengers. And Fantastic Four. There are plenty of eyewitness reports including TV news broadcast.
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Yep and I know of some of his miraculous feats. I can remember when he took down the Hulk with one punch and when he had to adjust to the superhero biz when he had 6 arms. But these are just the kind of things that you expect of your super heroes. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 15:49:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
by Convinced
Do unchanging moral truths exist? |
Apparently not. Xians like William Lane Craig have no problem with babies being killed, so long as god is the one ordering it.
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Why do you have a problem with babies being killed? |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 15:55:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Convinced
| Originally posted by Dave W.And? Different Wild Cards stories attest to others in the series. Doesn't make any of them more true. |
I agree but none of those have any eyewitness testimony that anything in that anthology actually happened or any fulfilled prophesy. |
What eyewitness testimony? Everyone from that era is dead. |
I was talking about The Apostles, Mary Magdalene, Paul, the over 500 witnesses for some. |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 16:33:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
It’s a pretty cool story about rainbows. In Luke 3:36 Noah is in the genealogy of Jesus as a real person. In Luke 17:26-27 Jesus is talks about the Noah story as actual history. Also in Mathew 24:36 Jesus is talking about his return and talks about the Noah story as a real event. When Jesus talks about the OT it is always as real history. |
In Red Storm Rising, Jack Ryan always talks about the events in the war Soviet Russia started because its main refinery blew up as if they were real history. And while many of the people, places and things mentioned in the book are real, the war itself was entirely fictional.| But what if that's just one more thing that the Bible is wrong about? That story isn't verified by any other source. |
I don’t need scientific proof to believe the Gospel or that the Bible is literal. |
You just got done saying that the fact that the Bible books attest to each other is a point in its favor. I'm saying that no outside source attests to their veracity, not that they require scientific proof.
I'm also saying that there are scientific disproofs of some parts of the Bible. It is not a credible source of information, whether you have faith or not. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 16:36:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
When Jesus talks about the OT it is always as real history. |
By the way, what was Jesus warning about when he spoke against "old Jewish fables?" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 16:43:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
I was talking about The Apostles, Mary Magdalene, Paul, the over 500 witnesses for some. |
Is there any independent verification of the existence of any of those witnesses? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 17:08:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Convinced
I was talking about The Apostles, Mary Magdalene, Paul, the over 500 witnesses for some. |
Is there any independent verification of the existence of any of those witnesses?
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Luke, Mathew, John, Mark, Paul, |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 17:24:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Luke, Mathew, John, Mark, Paul, |
By "independent," I meant outside of the series of books that try to convince us of their own veracity. As I said, the Bible is not credible. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 18:20:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Convinced
Luke, Mathew, John, Mark, Paul, |
By "independent," I meant outside of the series of books that try to convince us of their own veracity. As I said, the Bible is not credible.
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Just because the books are bound together does not mean they were not written independantly. |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 18:44:39 [Permalink]
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| OK, any evidence *from the same time* outside the highly suspicious, written-way-after-the-events, books in the Bible? I mean, dude goes around turning water into wine, multiplying fish and walking on water. Someone else not invested in his business must've written about it, right? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 19:01:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Siberia
OK, any evidence *from the same time* outside the highly suspicious, written-way-after-the-events, books in the Bible? I mean, dude goes around turning water into wine, multiplying fish and walking on water. Someone else not invested in his business must've written about it, right?
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Are you saying if I can produce this you will believe the stories and miracles? I agree with you that more people would have written something. But how do you know someone didn't? |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 19:35:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Just because the books are bound together does not mean they were not written independantly. |
Doesn't mean they were, either.
Look, the Romans were fastidious record-keepers, yet we have no contemporary independent accounts of any upstart Jewish prophet causing a riot at a temple in Jerusalem. Only two books in the Bible say it happened, and since they use almost the exact same language, it's quite likely that one was copied from the other.
(Huh, I just noticed that Matthew and Mark seem to disagree on whether Jesus went to Bethany before or after his temple gig in Jerusalem.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2013 : 19:40:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Originally posted by Siberia
OK, any evidence *from the same time* outside the highly suspicious, written-way-after-the-events, books in the Bible? I mean, dude goes around turning water into wine, multiplying fish and walking on water. Someone else not invested in his business must've written about it, right?
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Are you saying if I can produce this you will believe the stories and miracles? I agree with you that more people would have written something. But how do you know someone didn't?
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I'm not saying I'd instantly believe any myth without hard evidence for it. Note that I asked for evidence, not necessarily eyewitness accounts. I'm just saying that, quoting people who a) wrote after the fact and may have improved on them, and b) are all part of a same series of book and holding it as evidence for incredible, wondrous things is about as reliable as saying Achilles was real because Homer wrote about him.
But, if other people (and considering the facts I'd say a lot) even mentioned the whole Jesus deal, if it was reported elsewhere outside what we today know as the Bible (which, again, was pretty much cherry picked into the current book), then that'd be interesting. As it is, I see no reason why believe this book over, say, the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Vedas. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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God-given racism
