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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:06:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Well, I have finished my detailed answer as to why I think Christianity is special. It's on page 5
I will answer the question about respecting the Muslim relgion when I get some more time.
What makes you think I was talking about Islam? Interesting.... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/28/2006 12:08:45 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:17:44 [Permalink]
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OK, Pleco, I'll bite. Were you thinking of more than one religion when you said, " "sincere" believers to kill infidels"?
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:31:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Anyone ever hear of Chinese Universists? I'm going to have to investigate that one.
From Encyclopaedia Britannica
http://www.britannica.com/eb/table?tocId=9432620&idxStructId=48930&typeId=
Chinese universists. Followers of a unique complex of beliefs and practices that may include: universism (yin/yang cosmology with dualities earth/heaven, evil/good, darkness/light), ancestor cult, Confucian ethics, divination, festivals, folk religion, goddess worship, household gods, local deities, mediums, metaphysics, monasteries, neo-Confucianism, popular religion, sacrifices, shamans, spirit writing, and Taoist and Buddhist elements. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:36:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
OK, Pleco, I'll bite. Were you thinking of more than one religion when you said, " "sincere" believers to kill infidels"?
I was thinking of Old Testament killings (which christianity has a love/hate relationship with) moreso than anything else. You know, back when god obviously hated everyone but his chosen people - before god's epiphany.
And I used the word "infidel" because it is Middle English and was used to originally describe people who did not believe in the christian god (though obviously its definition has been expanded somewhat.) |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/28/2006 12:40:23 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 05:35:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
In my life, I would estimate that I've heard testimonies (empiracle evidence) of at least 150 people saying they had increased well-being and changed lives because of new found Christianity. Some call it a born again experience.
...
In my experience I have seen more people have this peace thru Christianity than thru any other way, and that is why I believe it is "special"...
Christianity (not "quasi" Christianity) is the only Hope for a dead and dying world... Love thy neighbor, and even though its hard, Love thy enemy.
So, for your statement, your thorough analysis includes:
1) You are a chrisitian. Have you not beleived in any other religion? If not, how do you know they have nothing better to offer?
2) You've heard 150 people. They were all christians? Have you talked to equal numbers of people of other faiths?
3) "In your experience..." Do you realize that your experience may be quite incomplete, and you are making a rather important decision/statement based on incomplete data? Besides, "your experience" is not very objective, is it?
4) You can get the same or better experience from eating certain mushrooms. See link: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html. I promise no virus here...
I'm sorry, but your "analysis" is quite incomplete. You need to do a lot more research. It is quite biased toward christianity, and if you expect people in a skeptic forum to give it any credence, you will need to be a whole lot more objective. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/29/2006 05:37:07 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 07:06:36 [Permalink]
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B. asked: quote:
Anyone ever hear of Chinese Universists? I'm going to have to investigate that one.
Interesting. From a little searching, I'm getting little information so far, aside from it apparently being a fast-growing new religion, largely populated by agnostics. Me, I prefer to take my infidelity without a side-dish of religion.
Here's a quote:quote:
The Universist Movement evangelizes Universism, which is among the world's fastest growing religious philosophies. Born from a coalition of atheists and deists, Universism unites diverse metaphysical belief by valuing continued exploration and questioning. Shearing previous progressive religion movements of new ageism and faith alike, Universism replaces the insipid and politically correct with today's unique Universist ethic - critical and faithless, yet genuine and passionate. The Movement's mission is to evolve religion in a safe direction in light of the events of September 11. In Universism truth is nontransferable, and the group collectively celebrates existential mystery, rather than absolute truth.
I'm not sure, however, if this is the same as Chinese Universism.
Still searching...
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 07:14:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Movement's mission is to evolve religion in a safe direction in light of the events of September 11
Like Sept. 11 was the first bad thing a religion has ever done... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 11:34:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I was asked why I believe Christianity is special compared to other religions. Well first all let me say that I respect all religions whose followers are sincere.
You respect a religion that instructs its "sincere" believers to kill infidels?
I respect the commitment of someone willing to die for a cause. But that cause may be far from Ultimate Truth and God. I also respect the right of a sincere religion to have laws and commandments. But those laws and commandments may be far from Ultimate Truth and thus the True Supreme God. I also believe my God is perfect and I will never, with my human mind, be able understand everything about Him. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 14:03:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
But those laws and commandments may be far from Ultimate Truth and thus the True Supreme God. I also believe my God is perfect and I will never, with my human mind, be able understand everything about Him.
Do you believe there has been, is, or will be someone human who understand the Ultimate Truth? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 14:05:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
[brI respect the commitment of someone willing to die for a cause. But that cause may be far from Ultimate Truth and God. I also respect the right of a sincere religion to have laws and commandments. But those laws and commandments may be far from Ultimate Truth and thus the True Supreme God. I also believe my God is perfect and I will never, with my human mind, be able understand everything about Him.
Okay, I'm not sure I got an answer, so a yes or no will do. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 10:00:21 [Permalink]
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I know this thread appears to be dying, but I found this frightening.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I was asked why I believe Christianity is special compared to other religions. Well first all let me say that I respect all religions whose followers are sincere.
You respect a religion that instructs its "sincere" believers to kill infidels?
I respect the commitment of someone willing to die for a cause.
No matter how many passengers on a bus or shoppers at a market die. It's the commitment to the cause that you respect. That's pretty fucking scary.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
But that cause may be far from Ultimate Truth and God. I also respect the right of a sincere religion to have laws and commandments. But those laws and commandments may be far from Ultimate Truth and thus the True Supreme God. I also believe my God is perfect and I will never, with my human mind, be able understand everything about Him.
Perhaps, but every attribute of your God was the product of man. Being beyond mans understanding is just another attribute. Your God is no different than the thousands of other gods throughout history. In other words, "Man created your God too." |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 13:10:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
In my life, I would estimate that I've heard testimonies (empiracle evidence) of at least 150 people saying they had increased well-being and changed lives because of new found Christianity. Some call it a born again experience.
...
In my experience I have seen more people have this peace thru Christianity than thru any other way, and that is why I believe it is "special"...
Christianity (not "quasi" Christianity) is the only Hope for a dead and dying world... Love thy neighbor, and even though its hard, Love thy enemy.
So, for your statement, your thorough analysis includes:
1) You are a chrisitian. Have you not beleived in any other religion? If not, how do you know they have nothing better to offer?
2) You've heard 150 people. They were all christians? Have you talked to equal numbers of people of other faiths?
3) "In your experience..." Do you realize that your experience may be quite incomplete, and you are making a rather important decision/statement based on incomplete data? Besides, "your experience" is not very objective, is it?
4) You can get the same or better experience from eating certain mushrooms. See link: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html. I promise no virus here...
I'm sorry, but your "analysis" is quite incomplete. You need to do a lot more research. It is quite biased toward christianity, and if you expect people in a skeptic forum to give it any credence, you will need to be a whole lot more objective.
1) I was pretty much an atheist until I read the Bible. Especially the New Testament... 2)I've seen Hindus, Muslims, and atheists, including myself come to Christianity and a personal relationship with God... #3 Everybody's experience is imcomplete. And you don't come to God by analyzing data, anymore than you ask someone to marry you by analyzing data. 4)a drug high is for a short time, where as a personal relationship with God is permanent and free. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 13:20:46 [Permalink]
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1) So the answer is no. And by atheist what exactly do you mean?
2) So the answer is no. You have not talked to people who are devout believers in other religions.
3) Of course if you ask someone to marry you is based on data. You don't understand the word data. Emotions are data. Feelings are data. That you don't see those as data says something.
4) It is neither permanent or free (assuming for the sake of argument that god exists and that you are talking about the christian god). You just have the equivalent of Stockholmn syndrome. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/30/2006 13:22:38 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 13:36:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
But those laws and commandments may be far from Ultimate Truth and thus the True Supreme God. I also believe my God is perfect and I will never, with my human mind, be able understand everything about Him.
Do you believe there has been, is, or will be someone human who understand the Ultimate Truth?
Oh, one other thing.
There are several of us who have had a long history in the Christian faith. I myself have some 10-15 years experience, and was baptised in the Pentecostal Church in Sweden. Don't assume that you are the only one who's read the Bible, and have had "experiences" of faith.
I willing to bet my immortal soul that we have SFN-member who know the Bible much more intimately that you do...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2006 : 13:45:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
[brI respect the commitment of someone willing to die for a cause. But that cause may be far from Ultimate Truth and God. I also respect the right of a sincere religion to have laws and commandments. But those laws and commandments may be far from Ultimate Truth and thus the True Supreme God. I also believe my God is perfect and I will never, with my human mind, be able understand everything about Him.
Okay, I'm not sure I got an answer, so a yes or no will do.
If a false religion or a false prophet said kill the infidels I would not respect that command. If "The True" Supreme God said kill the infidels I would respect that command. But I believe God wants all to be happy. But I believe universal laws are necessary to prevent chaos. And if people continually "choose" to disobey God's laws they will receive the punishment that God has chosen, which may include death or damnation. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 08/30/2006 14:05:51 |
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Caesar's Messiah
Topic Locked
