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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2006 : 16:04:32 [Permalink]
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My point is made.
You have not opened a single link. If you had, you would have commented on them. Rather, you simply call me, among others, a liar, while your own dishonesty is manifest.
You're a phoney, ergo. You are not here for any discussion; you are not interested in finding out the known facts of the WCT collapse. All you are interested in is trolling. We get a fair amount of that in here, and an almost sure sign of it is when a newbie only posts on a single topic, usually of his/her own. What other topics/threads have you been involved in after some 300+, nonsensical posts?
This is a waste of time, but again: refute me/us if you can, chump. Me, I don't think that you have anything beyond the same,verbal flatulence you've been drooling along with since post one.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 10/22/2006 16:08:18 |
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Master Yoda
Skeptic Friend
59 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2006 : 16:11:46 [Permalink]
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Ergo,
I said, "take the bait" because I haven't seen any proof that you're really looking for answers, but I thought, "Hmmm, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for a minute..." Your responses to Dave W and Filthy are a bit of the same-old/same-old, though, so I may have been wrong. I'm going to give it one more try, though.
This is the opening page to 911Myths. I never assumed you wanted to debunk LC. I assumed you wanted to verify facts. If that's your intent, then I repeat that you couldn't have a better starting place.
http://www.911myths.com/index.html
quote:
The web is full of sites covering various conspiracy theories. Many seem well-researched, and appear to have plenty of detailed documentation to prove their claims. But are they really true?
We don't know, but one good way to start is by checking a few claims for yourself. We tried that with a number of 9/11 sites, with surprising results. Many of the “facts” we read were distorted, or simply wrong. Quotes were routinely taken out of context. Relevant information was often ignored. And much of this could be discovered with a minimum of online research.
Whatever you believe about 9/11, the spreading of false claims helps no-one, and we'd like to play a small part in revealing some of them. We're not about debunking entire conspiracies, then, but will use this site to zoom in on what we think are the more dubious stories, revealing the misquotes, the distortions, the inaccuracies that are so common online.
But does this make us an authority? No. If we've an overall message here, it's check things for yourself. Don't trust a site just because it's telling you what you want to believe. Don't believe us without evaluating our arguments and checking the references we provide, either (we're as likely to make mistakes as anyone else). Look into the claims yourself, discover both sides of the argument, and make your own mind up. The truth deserves nothing less.
This is their approach to everything they do. That's why, taking your request for information seriously, I recommended it as the best starting point. A lot of their investigations lead to "We can't say, but at least XXX or YYY portions should be taken as not necessarily factual."
In retrospect, I do recommend you look at some of the SLC material and the JREF forum but I don't recommend you get into a forum over there. You are far too defensive, and if you think this feels like piling on, remember that you're in a relatively small, but dedicated forum, here. JREF has a much higher profile because of its association with James Randi and the publicity they get, plus they have a good twenty to thirty veteran anti-conspiracists. (And by veteran, I mean guys who go to Ground Zero and take on the "movement" every weekend.....)
I'm off to begin a busy working day (I'm in Asia, as I mentioned), but I really hope you take the advice.
And stop arguing everything from a "protect my words" position, please. Filthy made some valid "observations", gave you some legitimate items to look at, and came to what I think of as legitimate conclusions. Why not just look at them and if there's something you deem incorrect, then state them. When you fling pooh, we're going to fling it back. |
| Edited by - Master Yoda on 10/22/2006 16:16:20 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 16:26:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Do you know the difference between an assumption and a possibility?
Absolutely. Why won't you move on? Why do you persist in continuing this nonsense regarding a question that's been answered affirmatively? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 16:31:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Indeed, not even an inkling of what you are talking about. People who try to develope theories, or even a decent hypothesis, don't fuck around on forums. They study.
That's quite the indictment of everyone (including yourself) on this board.
That's interesting, as I haven't seen anyone here say that they're interested in developing a theory about this stuff, so how could filthy's remark be an indictment of anyone? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 17:29:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Indeed, not even an inkling of what you are talking about. People who try to develope theories, or even a decent hypothesis, don't fuck around on forums. They study.
That's quite the indictment of everyone (including yourself) on this board.
That's interesting, as I haven't seen anyone here say that they're interested in developing a theory about this stuff, so how could filthy's remark be an indictment of anyone?
Even better, Dave; it's a pretty neat logical fallicy. He's putting forth a straw man, a red hering, and ad hominem all in a very brief sentence. Pretty good, if you ask me.
In fact, I'm a little envious. I'm not sure I could manage it. But then, until just recently, I, among numerous others, have tried to be as honest and concise as possible. But now, after virtual reams of nonsense from ergo, fuck him. If he wants to know something, he can drag his ass off to Google or the library. Or to whatever bedlam his cronies hang out in.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 17:33:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
He's putting forth a straw man, a red hering, and ad hominem all in a very brief sentence. Pretty good, if you ask me.
In fact, I'm a little envious. I'm not sure I could manage it.
Mozina managed four fallacies in a single sentence, once.
No, I'm not going to try to find it again, but it was pretty amazing. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 17:46:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
He's putting forth a straw man, a red hering, and ad hominem all in a very brief sentence. Pretty good, if you ask me.
In fact, I'm a little envious. I'm not sure I could manage it.
Mozina managed four fallacies in a single sentence, once.
No, I'm not going to try to find it again, but it was pretty amazing.
I wasn't involved in that, mainly because I know little about the topic. Now you're making me wish I'd at least lurked a little more than I did. I love creative, logical fallacies, and see so few of them. Creative ones, at least. Most are just same-ol'/same-ol', and are pretty dull.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 17:47:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
He's putting forth a straw man, a red hering, and ad hominem all in a very brief sentence. Pretty good, if you ask me.
In fact, I'm a little envious. I'm not sure I could manage it.
Mozina managed four fallacies in a single sentence, once.
No, I'm not going to try to find it again, but it was pretty amazing.
Well, you can't argue about his commitment. The time, energy and money he poured into his pet hypothesis makes Ergo look like... like... (help me out here, what is like a "paper tiger" but less threatening, more like a sheep than a tiger?)
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 17:57:23 [Permalink]
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Pouring a large cope and drag mold.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 18:30:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
He's putting forth a straw man, a red hering, and ad hominem all in a very brief sentence. Pretty good, if you ask me.
In fact, I'm a little envious. I'm not sure I could manage it.
Mozina managed four fallacies in a single sentence, once.
No, I'm not going to try to find it again, but it was pretty amazing.
Well, you can't argue about his commitment. The time, energy and money he poured into his pet hypothesis makes Ergo look like... like... (help me out here, what is like a "paper tiger" but less threatening, more like a sheep than a tiger?)
An origami crane?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 18:37:45 [Permalink]
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A paper nautilus? 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 10/22/2006 18:58:12 |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 22:24:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Master Yoda
Ergo,
I said, "take the bait" because I haven't seen any proof that you're really looking for answers, but I thought, "Hmmm, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for a minute..." Your responses to Dave W and Filthy are a bit of the same-old/same-old, though, so I may have been wrong. I'm going to give it one more try, though.
This is the opening page to 911Myths. I never assumed you wanted to debunk LC. I assumed you wanted to verify facts. If that's your intent, then I repeat that you couldn't have a better starting place.
http://www.911myths.com/index.html
quote:
The web is full of sites covering various conspiracy theories. Many seem well-researched, and appear to have plenty of detailed documentation to prove their claims. But are they really true?
We don't know, but one good way to start is by checking a few claims for yourself. We tried that with a number of 9/11 sites, with surprising results. Many of the “facts” we read were distorted, or simply wrong. Quotes were routinely taken out of context. Relevant information was often ignored. And much of this could be discovered with a minimum of online research.
Whatever you believe about 9/11, the spreading of false claims helps no-one, and we'd like to play a small part in revealing some of them. We're not about debunking entire conspiracies, then, but will use this site to zoom in on what we think are the more dubious stories, revealing the misquotes, the distortions, the inaccuracies that are so common online.
But does this make us an authority? No. If we've an overall message here, it's check things for yourself. Don't trust a site just because it's telling you what you want to believe. Don't believe us without evaluating our arguments and checking the references we provide, either (we're as likely to make mistakes as anyone else). Look into the claims yourself, discover both sides of the argument, and make your own mind up. The truth deserves nothing less.
This is their approach to everything they do. That's why, taking your request for information seriously, I recommended it as the best starting point. A lot of their investigations lead to "We can't say, but at least XXX or YYY portions should be taken as not necessarily factual."
In retrospect, I do recommend you look at some of the SLC material and the JREF forum but I don't recommend you get into a forum over there. You are far too defensive, and if you think this feels like piling on, remember that you're in a relatively small, but dedicated forum, here. JREF has a much higher profile because of its association with James Randi and the publicity they get, plus they have a good twenty to thirty veteran anti-conspiracists. (And by veteran, I mean guys who go to Ground Zero and take on the "movement" every weekend.....)
I'm off to begin a busy working day (I'm in Asia, as I mentioned), but I really hope you take the advice.
And stop arguing everything from a "protect my words" position, please. Filthy made some valid "observations", gave you some legitimate items to look at, and came to what I think of as legitimate conclusions. Why not just look at them and if there's something you deem incorrect, then state them. When you fling pooh, we're going to fling it back.
I've spent part of the evening looking at the site you suggested I review. But I'm confused by that site--or more accurately, that you would send me there for evidence checking.
Granted, I've only looked at a couple of sections (with all their links, too), but they don't seem t |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 22:38:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
So, yoda, I guess I'm not finding that site you recommended very compelling.
See, that's why nobody wants to play your little game. Nobody here gives a fuck what you find "compelling." You have the balls to call members here liars, yet refuse to offer any evidence for your own point of view. Well, tough titty. If you have doubts, then in all likelihood you'll carry those doubts to your grave. We can't dispell irrational doubt. All we can do is determine whether any alternative theory you present is plausible. Since you refuse to do that, there really isn't much more to say.
Doubt all you want. There are imbeciles who doubt men went to the moon. There are morons who doubt evolution is true. And there are people who doubt the Twin Towers could not have fallen from being struck by planes. [shrug] Unreasonable people will always maintain unreasonable doubts. Reasonable people ignore them.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 23:01:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
So, yoda, I guess I'm not finding that site you recommended very compelling.
See, that's why nobody wants to play your little game. Nobody here gives a fuck what you find "compelling." You have the balls to call members here liars, yet refuse to offer any evidence for your own point of view. Well, tough titty. If you have doubts, then in all likelihood you'll carry those doubts to your grave. We can't dispell irrational doubt. All we can do is determine whether any alternative theory you present is plausible. Since you refuse to do that, there really isn't much more to say.
Doubt all you want. There are imbeciles who doubt men went to the moon. There are morons who doubt evolution is true. And there are people who doubt the Twin Towers could not have fallen from being struck by planes. [shrug] Unreasonable people will always maintain unreasonable doubts. Reasonable people ignore them.
Why are you so angry...? |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Molten metal
