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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2007 : 06:02:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Anytime anyone has every pointed out that I insulted them, I have apologized. You will notice that I pointed out in this very thread that someone had a good point, and have done it before, and have pointed out that I'm wrong. You just don't pay attention.
First, if that is the case, I do apologize for those "questions" Gorgo! I can't say that I have read all your posts, but though I have seen a lot of insults from you I might have missed all the apologies, just as I seem to be unable to find how you acknowledge an opposing point in this thread. quote:
You are just here to be insulting, evidently. Saying that I "troll" is an insult. Telling me in another thread you'd wish I'd shut up is an insult.
Well, that is not exactly what happened now is it? (Also, you see that your deleted posts still appear in my replies  ) quote:
And you added nothing to that thread or this one other than those insults.
Well insults aside, in that thread you eventually did start to add things, I will gladly admit to that. That was what I wished for. quote:
So, what is your definition of troll if not that? If you have more insults, take them to private messages, these people don't have time for your nonsense.
Why would anyone want to do that? Maybe you are just wishing that Iīd shut up?
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 06:16:24 [Permalink]
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And of course, that is exactly what happened in that thread, and I am very aware that your posts reflect what I said. The attempt was to pare down the thread so as not to take too much away from what TOMK was saying without changing anything. I think I did that. You added nothing of substance to that thread, and seem only there to be insulting, as you seem to be here. If you thought I was insulting to you in that thread, I do apologize, but I took you to be someone who actually read the thread and understood why I said what I said. I meant no disrespect, and mean none here. I just don't understand why you feel the need to be the way you appear to be.
If you don't see where I said someone else had a point, you must not have read this thread either. I have never read any thread where you actually contributed anything of substance, so I take you to be someone like some others here that are not serious. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2007 : 06:43:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
quote:
(Because for Dave time moves differently...) You're right on, Gorgo.
quote:
You are the one that is right on. I made a blanket statement, but I was talking about this thread, and it also applies to some threads that I've been involved in. But, back to this thread. Please explain Dave to me in this thread. Don't go to any other. Just explain Dave to me in this thread.
In case anyone missed the part where I said someone had a point. I've never missed a beat in saying I was wrong, or that someone had a point, or that I apologized for being insulting. I cannot recall anyone ever apologizing to me here. Even people who changed their behavior after I called them on it. I can vaguely remember someone saying I had a point, but that I took that point too far. I do not recall anyone ever saying that they were wrong. I do not recall ever not backing up anything that I said, although I know, like Beskeptigal, there are just times when you don't waste your time with people. If you look at the archives, I've probably already backed up every statement somewhere, if they go back that far anymore.
Okay, I'm an idiot. I kept editing a previous post thinking I was creating a new one. Anyway, read the red type above. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 02/26/2007 06:45:20 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 06:51:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
If you thought I was insulting to you in that thread, I do apologize, but I took you to be someone who actually read the thread and understood why I said what I said. I meant no disrespect, and mean none here. I just don't understand why you feel the need to be the way you appear to be.
Ok, Gorgo! I apologize for those comments I have made that you have found insulting to you.
Although I do have some criticism against some of your posts I have no interest in insulting you personally. When it comes to your views and opinions, even if I don't always share them I value the input.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 09:47:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
I apologize for those comments I have made that you have found insulting to you.
Thanks. To quote Bert Convy, I acknowledge that! |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 10:10:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
quote:
I apologize for those comments I have made that you have found insulting to you.
Thanks. To quote Bert Convy, I acknowledge that!
Group hug?? |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 10:34:34 [Permalink]
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| Hug this. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 15:08:26 [Permalink]
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. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 16:57:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
In case anyone missed the part where I said someone had a point. I've never missed a beat in saying I was wrong, or that someone had a point, or that I apologized for being insulting. I cannot recall anyone ever apologizing to me here. Even people who changed their behavior after I called them on it. I (johnOAS) have modified this bit, but I'm not sure anyone can/will notice
Can I nominate this for the "Worst font colour in a forum post".
Envelopes please.
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John's just this guy, you know. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 17:24:31 [Permalink]
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I'm not hugging you guys.
FYI just for you, Dave W.
Here's some insight into why I don't mind posting pages on one topic but occasionally am not interested in posting on another.
A discussion/debate starts with underlying premises, generally those are the same for everyone, or, at least understood. A liberal/conservative discussion certainly starts with different underlying premises but that's understood by both parties.
If, on the other hand, you find that the disagreement begins with an underlying premise which is much more than something as simple or well understood such as liberal/conservative, then the discussion becomes about the premise not the original subject.
I have zero desire to debate with anyone the underlying premise that broadcast and print media have analogous components with Internet media, that monopolies have negative consequences, that monopolies are profitable therefore profit driven corporations naturally seek monopolies, and that giving carte blanche privileges to monopoly broadcast and print media conglomerates to dominate print and broadcast media with their political message is a really bad idea.
Now, whether you agree or disagree with any of those premises I don't know and don't care. But if I have to go to any lengths to support those premises in order to discuss something else such as Net Neutrality then the discussion just isn't worth my time.
Another thing you might consider, when you rely excessively on claims everything you disagree with is a disagreement based on some error in logic it becomes a waste of time to read and reply to your posts. Perhaps you believe all those errors in logic are relevant. I most certainly have not been convinced and have found many obvious flaws in your thinking.
For example claiming a logic error in "argument by analogy" when it is only "argument by false analogy" that is erroneous. Or claiming something wasn't analogous without justifying how the analogous components weren't relevant, and only non-analogous components were. If you can't find any components of print and broadcast media that are analogous to Internet media, not everyone is going to bother pointing those components out just because you posted a claim you see nothing analogous.
Dismissing paragraphs with claims of logic errors are sometimes appropriate, but used repeatedly you risk leaving the person you are conversing with feeling they are wasting their time. Why put forth an argument at all if the response is brushed off repeatedly with little quips? Is it any surprise a person would walk away from such a discussion?
Perhaps it was therapeutic to write an entire page of such claims. I certainly didn't bother reading such a preposterous post. Had you had something of substance to comment on about what you were replying to I might have. But dismissing everything as one logic error after another ignores any attempt to actually discuss the issues. Knowing you've posted erroneous claims of logic errors in the past is even more reason to ignore a page of such claims.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 17:25:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnOAS
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
In case anyone missed the part where I said someone had a point. I've never missed a beat in saying I was wrong, or that someone had a point, or that I apologized for being insulting. I cannot recall anyone ever apologizing to me here. Even people who changed their behavior after I called them on it. I (johnOAS) have modified this bit, but I'm not sure anyone can/will notice
Can I nominate this for the "Worst font colour in a forum post".
Envelopes please.
You can highlight it to read it more easily. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 22:08:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Why put forth an argument at all if the response is brushed off repeatedly with little quips?
And my point was: why put forth an argument so full of logical holes on a skeptic's website in the first place? Why did you waste your time writing any of it when your basic premise was so mismatched with reality?
And of course it is quite obvious that you didn't read most of my long post, because perhaps otherwise you might have refrained from correcting me on the "argument by analogy" thing a third time, after I'd already accepted your correction the first time. You didn't even read that far. So of course you still don't understand a lot of things I've said, because you didn't read the explanations mixed in there with the "quips."
But I thank you for listing some of what Gorgo might call your "sacred cows," beskeptigal. I guess it's important to know what topics you will simply refuse to discuss, so that nobody else wastes your time or theirs.
Perhaps obvious to everyone, I consider such "forbidden" topics to be antithetical to rigorous critical thinking. In my opinion, we (as in everyone in the world) have the most to gain when what were thought to be fundamentally true assumptions are shown to be wrong in some way or another. Every major scientific "revolution" has had something like that at its root, from Galileo to Gould. And the most important part of that whole process is questioning one's own premises - if one refuses to critique one's own assumptions, then questioning anyone else's premises is nothing more than hypocrisy.
If the realm of politics is so different than that of science, in that it's accepted that some things are just off-limits for discussion, then I may have to figure out how to change my vote in last week's poll, because then skepticism can't possibly help.
And I know you're not interested, but what caused me to question the analogy between the Internet and other big media (in maybe one of the most-important ways they might be analogous) is something that you said. But you're obviously willing to ignore the fact that I went into that discussion arguing in favor of the analogy. What came out of your keyboard made me question that premise.
But now I know that such talk is anathema to you. Out of respect for you, I will henceforth refrain from trying to engage you in any such discussion ever again. In return, I'd very much appreciate it if you'd simply post "I won't discuss that" if I happen to come across any of your other prohibited subjects in future threads (I won't ask for an exhaustive list) instead of complaining about your head hurting, expressing bewilderment, and asking me to explain things that I never argued for in the first place. That will save me a lot of time, too.
Can we shake on such a deal? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 03:37:13 [Permalink]
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The argument is only full of holes from your perspective, not from mine. I posted several pages before declining further engagement
No, I didn't read your page listing logic arguments. It invited the reader to ignore it.
You are still angry I have declined a debate which I am within my rights to do. Is there a forum rule I missed?
Trying to goad me into it or simply berating me for my decision is uncalled for. I have taken the time to explain why I chose not to discuss a particular topic further. I think it was reasonable and simple explanation.
"I won't engage you ever again?" Kind of a juvenile comment, don't you think?
Has it ever dawned on you to think about what it is that pisses you off simply because a person chooses not to reply?
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 05:00:39 [Permalink]
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In this thread TOMK says:quote:
In the thread on Yugoslavia I created (which I am still working on, but due to a number of projects I have now research time I can spend on it is going slow) I am called "far right". I think such designations are ultimately completely meaningless and we should do away with them. And perhaps that is something that rubbes me the wrong way more in the beginning of your post.
In this thread, TOMK says:
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7495#111114
quote:
Indeed. I have been looking at the sources for Gorgo's claims, but all I can find in that direction as of yet are sources that are either extreme left or Serbian nationalist sources. Neither of whom I have any reason to consider accurate.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 06:26:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
"I won't engage you ever again?" Kind of a juvenile comment, don't you think?
But thatīs not what Dave W wrote is it?quote:
Originally posted by Dave W. (Emphasis mine)
Out of respect for you, I will henceforth refrain from trying to engage you in any such discussion ever again.
I don't find that to be juvenile at all. |
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My supposed left wing media sources
