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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 02/25/2007 : 12:51:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Oh look. Dave is a stickler for arguments presented as precisely as one would expect a critical thinker to present them.
Dave is a stickler for taking people all around precise arguments in this type of thread, in my opinion. He's wasting everyone's time with this thread, and his need to be a policeman for BG's "behavior" is adolescent. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 14:02:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
quote:
Oh look. Dave is a stickler for arguments presented as precisely as one would expect a critical thinker to present them.
Dave is a stickler for taking people all around precise arguments in this type of thread, in my opinion. He's wasting everyone's time with this thread, and his need to be a policeman for BG's "behavior" is adolescent.
Gorgo, let me ask you a question. And I want you to reflect on it before you answer. If you didn't agree with beskeptigal's views, and I mean, if you thought she was dead wrong, would you still think what Dave is doing is a waste of time?
I ask that because I have often seen him do what he is doing here to people who post technically flawed arguments from a critical thinking standpoint, and you didn't say anything critical of Dave about it.
As for being a policeman, given that there is a standard that skeptics pretty much go by, I would say that we all do that. Even you Gorgo. Or has a person never made a claim, and you insisted that the person making the claim must provide the evidence in support of his assertion?
Fact is, I think Dave should be given some credit for not playing favorites…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 15:28:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
But I will say one more thing. I bet you can't find one thing I've done except refuse to spend time supporting my position to you on a number of issues. And every post that you went off on your melodrama about "my behavior" is related to your expectation I owe you my time. I don't. You are clearly within your rights to say, "I'm not convinced" But you have no right whatsoever to accuse me of wrongdoing for not taking the time to discuss something you wanted to discuss, or for not meeting your debate standards.
Then what's the point of posting? That is, if you more or less admit that you don't bother to support your position and take the time to discuss something, then why come here and post your initial position on such-and-such topic?
I've been posting here for years so if you haven't seen me support my positions you haven't been reading. Dave had a position on the Net Neutrality thread that was so far from mine I didn't care to debate it. It was going to take hours. Nothing would be accomplished even if he changed his view. I am well read on media issues. Link me a reference, I'll read it but what is the point of convincing someone of anything? It's generally because we want to for whatever reason.
Ever just not care to convince someone?
I was trying to come to terms over the misinterpretations of my posts in other threads. It wasn't until I looked at all the posts together that I saw all the Net Neutrality thread ties. Dave was bringing up the issues from the NN thread where they didn't exist in the other threads. Had I known sooner I would have understood his issues with the Libertarian stuff.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/26/2007 02:40:49 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 15:49:02 [Permalink]
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You can't see the forest through the trees, Dave. Try looking at the bigger picture.
Gorgo, I appreciate your support, believe me, no one else here seems to have even commented about Mycroft calling me a liar. But it isn't necessary to get involved. I don't have any desire for "teaming up" since it's pretty crappy Dave has chosen to do so and I don't appreciate it myself.
And I do appreciate your post Kil. At least it's independent comment rather than judgment.
But the reason I didn't support anything I said, believe, presented etc was only the discussion Dave is pissed I didn't want to pursue. I don't care to argue his position on media monopolies and Net Neutrality beyond a few areas. I am still waiting for someone to find all the posts where I have "behaved"  so deserving of this personal attack?
Is the argument I haven't supported some position? That makes me a badly behaved person?
When I get time/ if I feel like it, I'll pull out the posts where Dave is annoyed and show how they go back to a topic I didn't feel like discussing. There are reactions to comments I made in posts that Dave had some huge bizarre reaction to. I posted the one exchange in my long discussion 2 posts up. I merely said, that's our core difference and he went off on a left field rant. How do you answer such a post when you don't have a clue what the reaction was all about? (Now I do, then I didn't.)
I just find it bizarre someone is so upset that someone else wasn't interested in a debate. And if this was all about me not supporting a position, then why isn't this discussion about that position? But it isn't now is it? I think that speaks volumes.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 16:01:49 [Permalink]
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I think if you look at page 2 and 3 of this thread on Net Neutrality, you will see that I spent a fair amount of time discussing what I had to say. You can also see that Dave wasn't satisfied.
How many pages did that Molina thread end up going?
I think it's reasonable to not want to get into a further discussion with someone after you recognize the amount of time you were being asked to spend. Was I obligated to spell that out and failed to? I just didn't post any more there. His anger grew and grew, in my opinion. But it was and still is unreasonable considering the claims are all about my "bad behavior".
 Bad skeptic. How dare you not keep debating until Dave is satisfied.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/25/2007 16:04:53 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 16:16:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Had I known sooner I would have understood his issues with the Libertarian stuff.
I told you precisely what the issues were "with the Libertarian stuff," and it's clear that you still don't understand what was going on there.
Next post:quote:
You can't see the forest through the trees, Dave. Try looking at the bigger picture.
I'm looking right at it...quote:
I just find it bizarre someone is so upset that someone else wasn't interested in a debate.
...and there it is: your new rationalization about why I am allegedly "pissed."
You seem to have latched onto it pretty tenaciously, so it will be interesting to see how long you can continue to fool yourself into thinking that it is true. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 16:17:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Fact is, I think Dave should be given some credit for not playing favorites…
I'm not flogging him, here. I'm noting that some of the people that give me a hard time are not just giving me a hard time because I'm an asshole, or even because I'm wrong. I don't follow most of the science debates because I don't understand the finer points of what's being said, and I wonder if Dave has trouble understanding the finer points of what's being said in the poltiics folder.
I don't know who Semolina or Farina is, but am I picking on Dave because he's Dave? Not completely. I'm picking on Dave because it's Dave, and because he's picking on someone I know puts some thought into what she says and is taking pages and pages to do it. There is a point when you can't explain the finer points of every little detail to people who just don't understand, or don't want to understand. That doesn't make her right, that just means that at some point you just have to give up on trying to please Dave. Everyone wants to please you and Dave, and you just can't do it sometimes, and then you get people who just like to pile on like Starman, who really don't care about any real discussion, and you have a mess. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 16:45:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I think it's reasonable to not want to get into a further discussion with someone after you recognize the amount of time you were being asked to spend.
It still amazes me that you or someone else didn't just post a link to an already-written description of the best possible "the Internet is analogous to the broadcast media because..." argument. That would have saved you a lot more time. I find it difficult to believe that nobody but me has asked the question, "is what seems 'obvious' actually true?" regarding that issue.quote:
Was I obligated to spell that out and failed to?
No.quote:
I just didn't post any more there.
As is your right.quote:
His anger grew and grew, in my opinion.
My alleged anger.quote:
But it was and still is unreasonable considering the claims are all about my "bad behavior".
Yes, you're still behaving poorly. Perhaps you are misinterpreting disappointment as anger.quote:
Bad skeptic. How dare you not keep debating until Dave is satisfied.
It seems that your secret decoder ring is broken. The one that tells you what someone's words "really" mean. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 17:00:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I'm not flogging him, here. I'm noting that some of the people that give me a hard time are not just giving me a hard time because I'm an asshole, or even because I'm wrong. I don't follow most of the science debates because I don't understand the finer points of what's being said, and I wonder if Dave has trouble understanding the finer points of what's being said in the poltiics folder.
I don't know who Semolina or Farina is, but am I picking on Dave because he's Dave? Not completely. I'm picking on Dave because it's Dave, and because he's picking on someone I know puts some thought into what she says and is taking pages and pages to do it. There is a point when you can't explain the finer points of every little detail to people who just don't understand, or don't want to understand. That doesn't make her right, that just means that at some point you just have to give up on trying to please Dave. Everyone wants to please you and Dave, and you just can't do it sometimes, and then you get people who just like to pile on like Starman, who really don't care about any real discussion, and you have a mess.
I understand what you've said here, Gorgo, but would just like to note that a single link had the potential to "please" me in that one particular thread. For the rest of this "mess," having nothing to do with that thread, it's a different story. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 02:46:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
...It still amazes me that you or someone else didn't just post a link to an already-written description of the best possible "the Internet is analogous to the broadcast media because..." argument....
I had no reason to. You still can't figure that out.
No reason, no motive, no link, not interested ..... simple. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 02:48:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
.... that just means that at some point you just have to give up on trying to please Dave. ..
I appreciate your comments. Thanks.
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 02:48:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
...and then you get people who just like to pile on like Starman, who really don't care about any real discussion, and you have a mess.
I don't mind discussing politics, Gorgo, but unfortunately real discussions are rare in the politics folder and you are usually around when a politics discussion has been dragged down into the mud. (But of course that is always someone else´s fault, isn´t it? )
So do I just pile on? Well maybe I do sometimes and maybe some of my comments may have been unnecessary, but then this is a skeptic site and when ever you, I or anybody else peddle lousy fallacious arguments we have to be prepared to answer for them, something you seem to be totally unable and unwilling to do.
You have been trolling this site for, what is it, 6 years? Have you ever during this time acknowledged that you might have been wrong? Have you ever admitted that an opponent at least might have point? Have you ever apologized for any of your numerous insults posted during these years?
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 04:17:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
...and then you get people who just like to pile on like Starman, who really don't care about any real discussion, and you have a mess.
I don't mind discussing politics, Gorgo, but unfortunately real discussions are rare in the politics folder and you are usually around when a politics discussion has been dragged down into the mud. (But of course that is always someone else´s fault, isn´t it? )
So do I just pile on? Well maybe I do sometimes and maybe some of my comments may have been unnecessary, but then this is a skeptic site and when ever you, I or anybody else peddle lousy fallacious arguments we have to be prepared to answer for them, something you seem to be totally unable and unwilling to do.
You have been trolling this site for, what is it, 6 years? Have you ever during this time acknowledged that you might have been wrong? Have you ever admitted that an opponent at least might have point? Have you ever apologized for any of your numerous insults posted during these years?
Anytime anyone has every pointed out that I insulted them, I have apologized. You will notice that I pointed out in this very thread that someone had a good point, and have done it before, and have pointed out that I'm wrong. You just don't pay attention. You are just here to be insulting, evidently. Saying that I "troll" is an insult. Telling me in another thread you'd wish I'd shut up is an insult. And you added nothing to that thread or this one other than those insults. So, what is your definition of troll if not that? If you have more insults, take them to private messages, these people don't have time for your nonsense. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 05:39:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I had no reason to. You still can't figure that out.
No reason, no motive, no link, not interested ..... simple.
You're correct, I can't figure it out because it's bizarre. You did have the motive and reason and you were interested in writing some unknown thousands of words in 13 posts in that thread, but you weren't interested in posting one link that would have saved you much of that effort. You wasted your own time, then complained about me "demanding" (in your mind) that you waste more time, and here in this post of yours are another 19 words wasting your time, when simply posting a link would have meant a lot less work for you and no wasted time a few weeks ago. I find such a position to be unreasonable in its inconsistency. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 05:53:22 [Permalink]
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SMACKS ALL THREE, STOOGES STYLE. Take a deep breath people and find something useful to chat about.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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My supposed left wing media sources
