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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 19:06:08 [Permalink]
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Humbert wrote: quote:
Exactly, so put pressure on them.
Why would I do that when I honestly think moderate, thoughtful, and skeptical theism is good for both society and individuals?
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You don't see how someone who believes in a supernatural entity is any less skeptical than one who does not?
Yes, and I've already explained why I think this. I don't expect you to agree with me, but I've tried very hard to at least get you to understand where I'm coming from.
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People have a right to hold their beliefs, but I don't understand why you're of the opinion that personal beliefs should not be challenged.
That depends on what you mean by challenged. If you mean that people should write books, give lectures, and engage in polite discussions about religion and philosophy, I happily agree. But if someone has religious practice and belief integrated into their private life and has no desire to engage in such debates, they cannot have those beliefs and practices challenged unless the challengers invade their privacy. There are those who advocate the public mockery of all beliefs. I support the harsh criticism and perhaps even mockery of beliefs which are directly harmful to human beings, but I do not advocate the mockery of all beliefs period. I fail to see how that helps the higher causes of peace, pluralism, and religious tolerance, and I clearly see how such behavior could damage those causes.
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Skepticism is of no value if it isn't applied to anything.
When did I say that skepticism shouldn't be applied to anything? I think you mean everything. I do not think skepticism is adequate as a worldview by itself. It is tremendously useful tool. It is one key to certain kinds of enlightenment. But it is not the only useful intellectual tool nor is it the only key to any kind of enlightenment.
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So we should just roll over and give up, right?
Please read over what I've written in this discussion because I do not see how you could come to this conclusion based on what I've written. I've said that there is an important difference between public and personal beliefs. I've adamantly advocated skepticism as necessary to politics and the setting of public policies. I've made it quite clear that all people should be skeptical to the point that they do not try to push strictly personal beliefs onto social institutions. I've hardly advocating rolling over and giving up the promotion of skepticism.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/04/2007 19:08:14 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2007 : 19:39:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Why would I do that when I honestly think moderate, thoughtful, and skeptical theism is good for both society and individuals?
Marf, there is no such thing as "skeptical theism." There are people who can be skeptical in many things except their theism, but that's not the same thing.
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quote:
You don't see how someone who believes in a supernatural entity is any less skeptical than one who does not?
Yes, and I've already explained why I think this. I don't expect you to agree with me, but I've tried very hard to at least get you to understand where I'm coming from.
I disagree with you because you're wrong. It's not a matter of understanding your position. I understand it fine, and I'm telling you that you're mistaken.
Skepticism, like science, is a method with rules. When you stop following those rules, you are no longer practicing skepticism. "Skeptical theism" is an illogical contradiction in the same manner that "square circle" is. You can be one or the other, but never both simultaneously.
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When did I say that skepticism shouldn't be applied to anything? I think you mean everything.
Yes, you're right. I meant that it should be applied to everything.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/04/2007 19:40:58 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 21:21:40 [Permalink]
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Yeah, "skeptical theism" is an even greater non sequitur than "military intelligence." Just because someone can put two words in close proximity doesn't make them meaningful. To the extent someone is theistic, that person is the opposite of skeptical. To the degree they are skeptical, they are not theistic.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/04/2007 21:25:36 |
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What is a skeptic?
