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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 05/18/2007 : 10:59:18
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6669569.stm
2000 pre-script symbols found in Chinese cave... I hope they're real!
Edit: If I remember correctly the previous oldest is 6.5k old or there abouts, from Iraq.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 05/18/2007 11:06:07
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 11:50:54 [Permalink]
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| Satan wrote those to mislead us into thinking the Earth is older than 6,000 years. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 11:58:44 [Permalink]
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You're right, BPS; Cuneiform is attested in what is now Iraq (at the site of Uruk) from ca. 3200 BCE. Chinese writing, as the article says, has always been thought to have been much younger.
As for what they say in the article-- it may be writing, but I'm not convinced. It's one thing to have some carvings that are similar to later Chinese graphemes (though things like "sun" and "star" are not convincing examples). But is it writing? Is there grammar and syntax behind the carvings? It seems unlikely to me, but we'll have to let the experts hash that out. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 05/18/2007 11:58:59 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 13:08:22 [Permalink]
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Well 2000 characters is quite a few for generic cave depiction, though I too am skeptical. Then again white people like me have been skeptical of every Chinese advancement throughout the years, as nobody even believed Morco Polo.
Is grammer really nessisary for it to be considered written language? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 14:39:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Well 2000 characters is quite a few for generic cave depiction, though I too am skeptical. Then again white people like me have been skeptical of every Chinese advancement throughout the years, as nobody even believed Morco Polo.
Is grammer really nessisary for it to be considered written language?
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Well, on some technical level, yes. That is, there are people who understand our earliest examples of Chinese writing-- inscriptions carved on bone for oracular purposes. They should be able to note which graphemes represent, say, the verb, or whatever. If the examples cited in this article really represent a spoken language and are not just symbols, we'd like to see some expression of that language. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 22:08:01 [Permalink]
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Cune noted:| If the examples cited in this article really represent a spoken language and are not just symbols, we'd like to see some expression of that language. |
Do you mean, try to find an existing descendant of that early spoken language?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/18/2007 : 23:17:47 [Permalink]
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I don't pretend any expertise in this area at all, but could they not be a form of communication between nomadic tribes; "We were here at this time." sort of thing? Or perhaps: "We will be at such & such a place this coming Autumn, let's party & arrange marriages." Or: "Kilroy was here!"
Really fascinating that these writings were not erased by the Flood. I'm hoping that more study gives us a better glimpse into the lives of these ancient peoples.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 07:03:04 [Permalink]
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Very Sweet. I too hope they are ot a hoax.
Peace
Joe |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 07:34:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Cune noted:| If the examples cited in this article really represent a spoken language and are not just symbols, we'd like to see some expression of that language. |
Do you mean, try to find an existing descendant of that early spoken language? |
Well, it's complex and not everyone is in agreement with what writing is. But I'd say that there's a difference between what you might call a semasiographic system, and true writing. The former isn't tied to any language. So the example 2+2=4 can be "two plus two equals four" or it can be "zwei und zwei ist vier" or "due pi&ugrav; due fa quattro" and so on. But it's not a written language because no matter how complex the writing in this system, grammar and the like will never be expressed.
So these characters may be telling a story that can be related in any language just by looking at it. But if there isn't an indication of a real language behind these characters, I wouldn't call it writing like I'd call the early Chinese oracular inscriptions, for instance. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 19:12:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Original_Intent
Very Sweet. I too hope they are ot a hoax.
Peace
Joe
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No, this is not in question, AFAIK. |
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HOLY Cuniformist Batman! 8k year old writing?!?
