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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2007 : 22:25:46 [Permalink]
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Marfknox---
Beautiful
Thank you
I will need time to reason upon your question; you always have intriguing questions.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2007 : 22:39:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Glad you caught that. You asked if I had been slighted; I asked if you had attachment.
That would be tit of tat. |
Oh, your ad hominem argument is really a retaliation for your misconception of my question?
I asked if you felt you had been slighted by the public school system because you claimed to have attended public schools and are railing against them here. Thus, as a way to better understand your position, I asked if you felt you had been slighted by that institution.
Also, to re-emphasize, this is not a question: | You seem to have an attachment, as your defense if valiant. |
It is a stated (albeit erroneous) opinion, seemingly intended to discredit my argument. These are some of the tasks described as average/basic level of literacy:
Calculate the weekly wage based on the hourly wage.
Locate two numbers on a graph and find the difference.
Calculate the cost of a sandwich and salad from menu.
Reading a table of contents in magazine.
Find a table in an almanac.
Given values, find BMI on graph.
This is not forgettable knowledge. Do you believe this to be an acceptable level of adult literacy? |
This is not the point. You have still failed to address my questions, instead focusing on these new tangents. Please return to the conversation. "Besides, what does the magical age of 10 have to do with anything?"
---It was agreed that 10 year old should be able to do theses tasks. |
I accept all blame for encouraging this digression even further. Please return the the conversation. "Are you arguing that adult literacy has declined, or are you arguing that childhood literacy has declined?"
---Yes, both. |
Then you must agree that these are separate points, yes? Not only are these points separate from eachother, but they are tangental to the conversation at hand. "You realize that literacy among 10-year-old children cannot be compared to literacy among adults without some correlating evidence, right?"
---I am comparing the agreed expectation that a 10 year old could do these tasks with the performance of the adults in the survey. |
You are doing it poorly, I might add. Now please return to the conversation.
Post Script: I see little reason to continue such a one-sided argument. If you fail to meaningfully respond, I shall discontinue participation in this conversation. -- B10 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 23:52:13 [Permalink]
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Boron, my responses are to your misconceptions of the discussion; please do not place your misunderstanding at my door.
I have attempted; in futility, to keep this talk logical. Alas, I can not keep you from looking for tangents that are not there.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 06:34:43 [Permalink]
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At the top of page 15, Jerome wrote: Marfknox---
Beautiful
Thank you
I will need time to reason upon your question; you always have intriguing questions. |
–in response to my comment at the bottom of page 14. However, I had made the same comments (as well as many other points) in two other posts on page 13 and another on page 14:
| You quoted claimed literacy levels from different time periods using different sources and provided no proof that these sources were using the same kind of measurement for literacy. |
| You have not established, using a consistent standard that literacy today is worse than it was before public education. |
| I have contended your claim (based on nothing in those articles) that literacy in America is worse today than it was in the mid-1800's. The only article that had clear qualifiers and ranking for literacy was the recent report. The other two were extremely general and didn't make it clear what "literate" meant, although they both implied several times that it simply meant the ability to read and write, which is improved today over what it was in the mid-1800's. |
But for some reason, this time my objection to Jerome's statements and claims about literacy today being higher than before the dawn of public education is “beautiful” and “intriguing”. Jerome, I'm starting to think you just plain old don't understand 90% of what is said on this forum. Maybe we should all just start writing in really short, simple sentences.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 13:01:04 [Permalink]
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Marfknox, first I am attempting to come to an agreement as to what is average literacy today; which I thought we all had. From this we will then contrast todays average literacy with literacy in the past. I am sorry to move back and forth; but it seems that the current state of what is literate is argued upon with surprising venom.
The initial posts concerning literacy in the past were only an introduction for the comparison. I will now develop an indepth explanation of past literacy.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 14:09:34 [Permalink]
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| I will now develop an indepth explanation of past literacy. |
Somehow I doubt that, but please, prove me wrong. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 15:58:56 [Permalink]
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I will start a new post, as we seem to be at the end.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 19:20:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I will start a new post, as we seem to be at the end. |
That, we do. Anyone who wishes to continue this discussion should feel free to open a new thread on the topic.
This thread locked due to length |
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Compulsory Government Education
Topic Locked
