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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2007 : 08:01:53 [Permalink]
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marfknox---" So does having any standards for child care and laws against child abuse."
Probable cause of a crime would be needed to enter the home in the cases of child abuse; and a child care operation is a business run in agreement with the state, hence state inspections.
"Two incomes are necessary for a variety of reasons"
I agree, I should have stated initially that there are a variety of reasons; the point being it is many times necessary to have two incomes which is a major reason (among others) it necessary to use public schools.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 08:19:48 [Permalink]
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Filthy---"Decent public schools were my salvation. "
This is the point, you had no reasonable option.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 08:44:23 [Permalink]
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Principles of Scientific Management (1911)
Fredrick W. Taylor
melbecon.unimelb.edu.au/het/taylor/sciman.htm
Summary:
Science, not rule of thumb.
Harmony, not discord.
Cooperation, not individualism.
Maximum output, in place of restricted output.
The development of each man to his greatest efficiency and prosperity.
The goal of public school is to produce workers that fit these standards.
Public schools were originally pushed and designed by the industrialist class.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 09:06:33 [Permalink]
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H.G. Wells The Open Conspiracy for World Government (1933)
users.cyberone.com.au/myers/opencon.htm
"The old-world teachers and schools have to be reformed or replaced. A vigorous educational reform movement arises as a natural and necessary expression of the awakening Open Conspirator. A revolution in education is the most imperative and fundamental part of the adaptation of life to its new conditions."
Government education is needed to teach people to live in the New Order.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 09:15:37 [Permalink]
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Superintendent William A. Wirt
www.wirtalumni.com/news/news08.htm
"Wirt had supposedly invented a new organizational scheme in which school subjects were departmentalized; this required movement of students from room to room on a regular basis so that all building spaces were in constant use. Bells would ring and just as with Pavlov's salivating dog, children would shift out of their seats and lurch toward yet another class."
Pavlov's behavior experiments used on children?
These plans seem to want efficiency at the expense of learning.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 10:42:24 [Permalink]
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I have no complaints with the public schools my son has gone to. In fact, they are innovators in the realm of public education. I suppose that is one good thing about being a rather small school district.
One thing they have done is to divide the school and students into subgroups. A house, B house and so on. Each house has its own principle (a vice principle really, but acting as principle to their house.) and counselors. In that way, the middle schools and the large high school is set up as several smaller schools that can cater to the students needs in a much more affective way.
As for what is being taught, I have seen no example of the George Washington cherry tree myth. The scientific method is being taught, which was not the case when I was in primary school, and the usual basics to get into collage.
My biggest complaint is with standardized testing. No child left behind and other tests must be passed to keep government funding at a reasonable level and that means teaching to the test. Those tests also cost the district money and take time away from actual teaching.
Ask any teacher how they feel about standardized testing…
Privet schools are expensive and the teachers are not always required to hold a teaching credential.
Home schooling is often used to incorporate a religious agenda that includes a rejection of science and leaves the kids ill suited to face the rigors of the real science they may face if they pursue a higher education that is grounded in reality…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:00:10 [Permalink]
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americanliteracy.com/ALC2/lit-history.htm
"In summary, ninety percent of the US population was literate from about 1700 to 1930."
"In a virtual free fall, literacy rates have dropped from 90% to 30% - and the decline continues. "
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy#United_States
"Literacy among college graduates declined between 1992 and 2003, with less than one-third of all graduates at the highest “proficient” level in 2003, and less than half of all graduates with advanced degrees at this level."
This goes to the original point; If one can not read proficiently one has little chance to think proficiently, thus creating non-thinkers.
This also stifles competition of thought and theory.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:12:29 [Permalink]
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Kil---"Privet schools are expensive"
---Generally private schools cost less per student than public school.
"Ask any teacher how they feel about standardized testing…"
---I have(public and private teachers in my family). Standard test cause teaching to the lowest common, leaving out the middle and top.
"As for what is being taught"
---Its more of what is not being taught, repetition of the same concepts takes time so as to not allow expansion of topics and broad reasoning.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:15:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist--- "Actually, I asked you for the data."
I would assume we would all agree that the two income household is common in America; and that it is uncommon to home school or private school.
Do you really need data to prove this? |
What you need to prove are all the assumptions you imply. First, it is still not clear to me if taxes are higher now than in the past. Second, assuming that most households are two-income households, you'd need to assert that this is done largely for financial gain, as opposed to some other reason. Third I find it hard to imagine that there is a correlation between that and homeschooling. That is, do you have any evidence to show that if a parent didn't work and stayed home, homeschooling would be more common? I doubt it. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:28:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
americanliteracy.com/ALC2/lit-history.htm
"In summary, ninety percent of the US population was literate from about 1700 to 1930."
"In a virtual free fall, literacy rates have dropped from 90% to 30% - and the decline continues. " |
This statement is absurd-- fewer than one in three people in the US are literate?
The Wikipedia link you offered was interesting, though you cherry-picked your quote. The key is this:| In 2003, [the NAAL] found that fourteen percent of American adults scored at this 'below basic' level in prose literacy in English. More than half of these persons did not have a high-school diploma or GED. |
This contradicts your above-noted argument about literacy being 30%. Moreover, note that most of the "below-basic" people didn't go to school. It's hard to argue that schools are part of some grand plan to create non-thinkers, and further suggest that they do so through poor teaching, when your evidence suggests that the poorest readers are the people who are uneducated and thus never finished school int he first place.
The entry also notes that "the average quantitative literacy scores of adults increased 8 points between 1992 and 2003."
I am not in a position to comment one way or another about the levels of literacy in this country (beyond saying that it's much higher than 30%), but I find your suggestions to be ludicrous.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:33:05 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist---I am afraid you have misunderstood the purpose of this talk.
I am sorry I did not make it clear.
The talk is about the purpose of government schooling, not the reasons most children go to public school.
You can not possibly deny that most children go to public school.
To your questions: (we are comparing pre-public school to post)
Before the federal income tax the federal government received the majority of monies from tobacco and alcohol tax.
Before taking the currency off of backing by REAL assets inflation was nil (except in times of war).
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:46:21 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist--- "This statement is absurd-- fewer than one in three people in the US are literate?"
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n20_v45/ai_14752502
"RECENTLY many Americans
were stunned by test scores appearing in a $14-million National Adult Literacy Survey. Though most of the 180 million adults in this survey have attended school for 12 years, over 96 per cent (174 million) can't read, write, and figure well enough to go to college; two-thirds (120 million) do not have the "literacy proficiency" to go to high school; and nearly a fourth (40 to 44 million) can't read. Some can sign their names. A few have learned to fill in the height, weight, age, and birthdate blanks on forms. But they can't really read."
Seems absurd, but facts prove otherwise.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:47:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by beskeptigal
George WA chopped down a Cherry tree, Lincoln walked miles in the snow to return a penny, history of Columbus is whitewashed, what was in your history books about Am Indians, Custer, etc, what did you learn about the last 100 years of US interference in Chile, Argentina, the Middle East etc etc etc.
Do you honestly think kids get the real history of this country in primary school? |
beskeptigal, do you honestly think kids are taught this garbage in primary school?
Though I did hear these stories when I was a child, they were presented as just that: stories. No attempt was made to make them seem like anything other than Aesopean fables.
I suppose for me, going to school in the '80s, I had a different perspective than my parent's generation. I was taught about many of the conquistadors' atrocities, about the plight of the Native Americans, and many others. I was even encouraged to read Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States! For those who haven't read it, we should discuss it in the Book Reviews forum. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:53:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist---I am afraid you have misunderstood the purpose of this talk.
I am sorry I did not make it clear.
The talk is about the purpose of government schooling, not the reasons most children go to public school.
You can not possibly deny that most children go to public school. |
No, but why would I. Either way, am I to assume that you are arguing that the government came up with the idea of public schools so as to create a lazy, non-critical thinking public?
To your questions: (we are comparing pre-public school to post)
Before the federal income tax the federal government received the majority of monies from tobacco and alcohol tax.
Before taking the currency off of backing by REAL assets inflation was nil (except in times of war). |
So I'm not sure what the point is, then.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:54:25 [Permalink]
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Marfknox Said:
| Are you kidding? Two incomes are necessary for a variety of reasons, primarily that women joined the workforce during the women's liberation movement, flooding the job market and to some degree driving down wages. Of course the main reason is changes in the economy and the loss of high-paying manufacturing jobs that made one-income middle class families more possible. And as Kil mentioned, money doesn't go as far as it used to for things such as higher education and health care. The idea that both parents have to work because of high taxes is absolutely absurd. The economy has been getting worse for the majority of Americans since the 50's. Inflation is certainly a factor since we see it going up in all that time. Do we see taxes steadily going up from the 50's until now? Nope. So it doesn't make sense to call that a major factor, if a factor at all. |
Good answer. Lemme guess...cumpulsory education?
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Compulsory Government Education
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