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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:59:20 [Permalink]
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Boron10---The point I am trying to make is: what is not taught.
The major skill not being taught is the ability to think. Only the ability to regurgitate is taught.
If one is taught to think and read, the content is less of an argument as people could discern for themselves truth.
This is not what is wanted, the current goal is to teach regurgitation of "accepted" views.
This process will stifle competition of thought and thus retard the evolution of human society.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:59:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
---Generally private schools cost less per student than public school. |
Source? Really, you should detect a trend here. You present conjecture as fact, and you are asked for evidence. Why don't you save us the effort of having to ask you over and over again, and just provide evidence along with your assertions? | ---I have(public and private teachers in my family). Standard test cause teaching to the lowest common, leaving out the middle and top. |
That is (almost) exactly Kil's point. The so-called "No Child Left Behind Act" leaves entire schools of children behind by removing money from schools that don't perform to their bogus standards. If a school is doing poorly, we are now removing funding, preventing the school from improving! | ---Its more of what is not being taught, repetition of the same concepts takes time so as to not allow expansion of topics and broad reasoning. |
I am not sure what your point is here. Are you advocating not repeating important concepts, removing any guarantee of the idea actually being learned? Are you instead advocating that elementary-school children obtain college-level educations? There is only so much time for "expansion of topics and broad reasoning" in a young academic setting.
Perhaps you would advocate restructuring the entire academic paradigm? If so, what are your recommendations? |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:06:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist--- "This statement is absurd-- fewer than one in three people in the US are literate?"
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n20_v45/ai_14752502
"RECENTLY many Americans
were stunned by test scores appearing in a $14-million National Adult Literacy Survey. Though most of the 180 million adults in this survey have attended school for 12 years, over 96 per cent (174 million) can't read, write, and figure well enough to go to college; two-thirds (120 million) do not have the "literacy proficiency" to go to high school; and nearly a fourth (40 to 44 million) can't read. Some can sign their names. A few have learned to fill in the height, weight, age, and birthdate blanks on forms. But they can't really read."
Seems absurd, but facts prove otherwise. |
Not really. Here are the most recent data. You'll find that in this country, the average scores fall in the "intermediate" range, and that only ca. 14% are below the "basic" range. We might quibble with the definition that they put forward for literacy, but either way, it's clear that by any reasonable definition, literacy in this country is higher than 30%, and obviously more than 6% of the country's population is or has recently gone to college, so the above quote is more sensationalist than based in reality. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:12:16 [Permalink]
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| Government education is needed to teach people to live in the New Order. |
 Here we go...
Well the way I look at it a one world goverment would be the greatest thing to ever happen to humanity, with the the possible exception of standing on 2 legs.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:13:43 [Permalink]
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Boron10---www.nea.org/specialed/index.htm
"The current average per student cost is $7,552 and the average cost per special education student is an additional $9,369 per student, or $16,921."
www.capenet.org/facts.html
Average private school tuition for all school types and all levels is $6,779.
It looks like overall private school is much less expensive than public school.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:14:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Boron10---The point I am trying to make is: what is not taught.
The major skill not being taught is the ability to think. Only the ability to regurgitate is taught. |
While this may be true in your case, I was (apparently) fortunate enough to have good teachers.... | If one is taught to think and read, the content is less of an argument as people could discern for themselves truth. |
I am pretty sure I agree with this statement, but would you mind rephrasing it for me?| This is not what is wanted, the current goal is to teach regurgitation of "accepted" views. |
What? Do you honestly think the government is conspiring to create drones out of public school students? I am going to ask you again, what is your evidence for this? | This process will stifle competition of thought and thus retard the evolution of human society. |
Wow. "...retard the evolution of human society." Strong words. Care to back them up? |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:17:23 [Permalink]
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Furshur---"Well the way I look at it a one world government would be the greatest thing to ever happen to humanity"
This is a very valid point of view; I am not making an argument one way or another, just pointing out the purpose of public schooling.
I am torn between the arguments for and against world government.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:25:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Boron10---www.nea.org/specialed/index.htm
"The current average per student cost is $7,552 and the average cost per special education student is an additional $9,369 per student, or $16,921."
www.capenet.org/facts.html
Average private school tuition for all school types and all levels is $6,779.
It looks like overall private school is much less expensive than public school. |
Interesting. The first link returned a "404" error. I cannot validate your claim. Second, your two data sets are incomparable. Your second source only counts tuition. Since I cannot see your first source, I can only assume they are including more than the free tuition in their data, like oversight costs, etc. I would therefore read these data to indicate that private school is much more expensive than public school. Perhaps you should actually read the information you post prior to assuming it supports your position. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:35:11 [Permalink]
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www.nea.org/specialed/index.html
try again please
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:48:33 [Permalink]
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Boron10---"your two data sets are incomparable"
As tuition is the major income for the business of private school (business needing to make a profit) these data set are comparable.
Unless you contend that private school is financed from other sources.
If so please cite data to confirm this contention.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:55:08 [Permalink]
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Much better, thank you.
Unfortunately, however, the page linked only tells us the "average per student cost" of a public education, so it looks like my prior assumption still stands. If you can find the source for the public school numbers, it might prove my assumption wrong; I eagerly await this revelation.
Edited for spelling -- B10 |
| Edited by - Boron10 on 05/20/2007 12:56:22 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 13:03:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This process will stifle competition of thought and thus retard the evolution of human society.
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No, it advances the evolution of society, because religious and conservative nations and societies will fade away and die because of it's own stupidity, leaving place for liberal societies like Scandinavian countries and New Zealand to gain. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 13:05:42 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist---
www.nap.edu/catalog/11267.html
I have to pay $57.50 to see the methodology and definitions of literacy.
Unless you are willing to pay %57.50, the conclusions without seeing definitions and methodology can not be taken as fact.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 13:10:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Boron10---"your two data sets are incomparable"
As tuition is the major income for the business of private school (business needing to make a profit) these data set are comparable.
Unless you contend that private school is financed from other sources.
If so please cite data to confirm this contention. |
How about this quote from a private school near me? "Tuition alone does not cover the cost of a Country Day education...."
ETA: This just happened to be the first school I looked at... -- B10 |
| Edited by - Boron10 on 05/20/2007 13:11:34 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 13:13:18 [Permalink]
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Dr. Mabuse---"No, it advances the evolution of society"
Only in the direction of those with the power to exert their views.
There are many examples in history where opposition and repression of thought by those in power caused the slowing of societal evolution.
inquisitions
shahira law
I hope you do not believe stifling of thought of which you disagree is O.K.; because in the future it maybe your thoughts that are in disagreement with the powers that be.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Compulsory Government Education
Topic Locked
