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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2007 : 18:23:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
You, looking at other woman but not acting on it says nothing about what your asking of gays. A gay man in a monogamous relationship lusting after other men might be a fair comparison. What you are doing is to suggest that they deny who they are. Or to recognize who they are, and not be who they are. Again, that's just cruel. |
I think you're missing Robb's point. According to his rulebook, it's okay to be gay, but not okay to act on those urges. Just like it's okay for him to be attracted to women not his wife, but not okay for him to act on that attraction. It's okay to have a desire to steal, but not okay to actually steal.
We've seen this before here. God lays temptations all over the place, and it's up to people to avoid giving in. The list of sins is obviously arbitrary, though, and that arbitrariness makes it okay for Robb to act on lust towards his female wife, but not okay for him to act on lust towards his hypothetical male life-partner.
The rulebook also says that he's not allowed to work one day out of seven. And that if his kid is rebellious, all the town's men should get together and kill the boy with rocks. And that he shouldn't eat lobster.
...I was going to say that "bigoted" is too strong a word, but then I realized that what I typed, above, makes your case stronger, Kil. Because unless Robb is ultra-orthodox, he's made choices about which of the hundreds of commandments in the Bible he sees as sins and which ones he doesn't. Choices that may themselves be arbitrary, as I don't recall homosexuality appearing in Deuterotomy, but only as that "abomination" verse later on in one of the smaller books of the New Testament. Maybe I'm just being forgetful, but my point remains, because I sure as heck hope that Robb isn't killing people for wearing two different kinds of fabric. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 19:15:38 [Permalink]
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| Just like it's okay for him to be attracted to women not his wife, but not okay for him to act on that attraction. |
It is ok to be attracted but if you fantasize about sex with the supposed women then you have committed a sin and will burn in hell for ever and ever and ever, and stuff.
Interesting religion. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 19:35:40 [Permalink]
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Dave:
I think you're missing Robb's point. According to his rulebook, it's okay to be gay, but not okay to act on those urges. |
That's kinda what I said. Guess I wasn't clear... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 22:02:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
...I don't recall homosexuality appearing in Deuterotomy, but only as that "abomination" verse later on in one of the smaller books of the New Testament.... |
As written in Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. |
As written in Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 06:25:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
It is ok to be attracted but if you fantasize about sex with the supposed women then you have committed a sin and will burn in hell for ever and ever and ever, and stuff.
Interesting religion.
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I agree with Kil that there is probably not much discussion left.
On the point above, nobody has to burn in hell forever and ever and ever and stuff. (I suspect you already knew that though.) |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 06:36:38 [Permalink]
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| On the point above, nobody has to burn in hell forever and ever and ever and stuff. (I suspect you already knew that though.) |
It depends on which form of christianity you follow. I know that there are some forms of christianity where you can fantisize about cheating on your wife, then actually do it, then kill your wife and kids, go out on a shooting rampage and murder 10 or 20 people and then right before the a police swat team shoots you, you take Jesus christ as your personal savior you will be wisked up to heaven. Again I must say - interesting religion.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 08:10:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
| On the point above, nobody has to burn in hell forever and ever and ever and stuff. (I suspect you already knew that though.) |
It depends on which form of christianity you follow. I know that there are some forms of christianity where you can fantisize about cheating on your wife, then actually do it, then kill your wife and kids, go out on a shooting rampage and murder 10 or 20 people and then right before the a police swat team shoots you, you take Jesus christ as your personal savior you will be wisked up to heaven. Again I must say - interesting religion. |
So you did already know you don't have to burn in hell forever and ever and ever and stuff. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 08:40:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by furshur
| On the point above, nobody has to burn in hell forever and ever and ever and stuff. (I suspect you already knew that though.) |
It depends on which form of christianity you follow. I know that there are some forms of christianity where you can fantisize about cheating on your wife, then actually do it, then kill your wife and kids, go out on a shooting rampage and murder 10 or 20 people and then right before the a police swat team shoots you, you take Jesus christ as your personal savior you will be wisked up to heaven. Again I must say - interesting religion. |
So you did already know you don't have to burn in hell forever and ever and ever and stuff.
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Yep. But if I, as a girl, love another girl as a mate and live in a long monogamous relationship with her but somehow don't think it's wrong and never repent being happy with my girl-lover, I'll go to hell anyway and sit right next to, say, Stalin in Gehenna, if he didn't repent in the end, that is, because if he did he'll be singing with the holy choir, right?
Very interesting religion indeed. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 09:29:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Siberia
Yep. But if I, as a girl, love another girl as a mate and live in a long monogamous relationship with her but somehow don't think it's wrong and never repent being happy with my girl-lover, I'll go to hell anyway and sit right next to, say, Stalin in Gehenna, if he didn't repent in the end, that is, because if he did he'll be singing with the holy choir, right?
Very interesting religion indeed.
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Stalin would have to do more than repent as I understand the Bible. Unless he was Mormon, then his children could get him into heaven.
If you did believe in Heaven and Hell would you want Stalin in Hell? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 09:42:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
If you did believe in Heaven and Hell would you want Stalin in Hell?
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Does that make the existence of heaven or hell a matter of belief? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 10:14:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by Robb
If you did believe in Heaven and Hell would you want Stalin in Hell?
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Does that make the existence of heaven or hell a matter of belief?
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No. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 10:51:27 [Permalink]
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| So you did already know you don't have to burn in hell forever and ever and ever and stuff. |
Yes. Robb, you have always come across as a level headed and reasonable person - don't mind me I'm just a bit of a butt-head.
I think when you die you go to sleep and never wake up. It doesn't seem fair that monsters like Hitler and Stalin don't get punished, but I guess life nor death is fair. But the idea that Mother Theresa and Hitler share the same fate because she didn't pray the right way to Jesus seems even less fair.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 11:23:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
| So you did already know you don't have to burn in hell forever and ever and ever and stuff. |
Yes. Robb, you have always come across as a level headed and reasonable person - don't mind me I'm just a bit of a butt-head.
I think when you die you go to sleep and never wake up. It doesn't seem fair that monsters like Hitler and Stalin don't get punished, but I guess life nor death is fair. But the idea that Mother Theresa and Hitler share the same fate because she didn't pray the right way to Jesus seems even less fair. |
I can see why you feel that way, I too feel that way when thinking that Mother Theresa and Jeffry Dahmer may be in heaven together. Or that people that have done predominantly good things in their lives may be in hell. But Christianity does not teach that your deeds are weighed and God makes a judgement whether you get into heaven or not. I believe Islam teaches that.
Christianity teaches that we have all sinned and deserve to go to hell when we die, only God made a way for us to be in heaven when He did not have to.
I suspect that you have studied the Bible and have rejected it as truth. I doubt that I can add to anything you have not heard before and this thread is far off course. I am happy to discuss anything about CHristianity if you want but maybe in a different thread. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 12:45:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Siberia
Yep. But if I, as a girl, love another girl as a mate and live in a long monogamous relationship with her but somehow don't think it's wrong and never repent being happy with my girl-lover, I'll go to hell anyway and sit right next to, say, Stalin in Gehenna, if he didn't repent in the end, that is, because if he did he'll be singing with the holy choir, right?
Very interesting religion indeed.
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Stalin would have to do more than repent as I understand the Bible. Unless he was Mormon, then his children could get him into heaven.
If you did believe in Heaven and Hell would you want Stalin in Hell?
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Not really. I wouldn't wish Hell (as it's described) to anyone. Not even Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Torquemada, or any other equally psychotic people. If I did, I understand I'd be as foul as they. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/12/2007 : 12:56:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Siberia
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Siberia
Yep. But if I, as a girl, love another girl as a mate and live in a long monogamous relationship with her but somehow don't think it's wrong and never repent being happy with my girl-lover, I'll go to hell anyway and sit right next to, say, Stalin in Gehenna, if he didn't repent in the end, that is, because if he did he'll be singing with the holy choir, right?
Very interesting religion indeed.
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Stalin would have to do more than repent as I understand the Bible. Unless he was Mormon, then his children could get him into heaven.
If you did believe in Heaven and Hell would you want Stalin in Hell?
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Not really. I wouldn't wish Hell (as it's described) to anyone. Not even Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Torquemada, or any other equally psychotic people. If I did, I understand I'd be as foul as they.
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Well said! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Surgeon General cures gays?
