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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/01/2007 : 17:12:01
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"Starting today, Virginia also will be the home of the $3,000 traffic ticket."
http://tinyurl.com/2sxqsm
After taxes this is about 30% of the average Americans income.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 17:33:54 [Permalink]
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And now, the rest of the story:| A first-time drunken driver will face a $2,250 civil penalty, plus fines and court costs that typically run about $500 or more. Driving without a license? That's a mandatory $900 civil penalty, in addition to the ordinary $100 for a fine and court costs. |
Sure looks milder than Dude's flogging suggestion. Why the Hell should anyone who drives drunk, endangering the lives of others, expect not to feel the punishment? Maybe hitting their pocket books will make an impression on their reckless behavior. And they are already going to be feeling a much greater monetary penalty when their car insurance rates zoom up.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/01/2007 17:36:15 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 17:48:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
And now, the rest of the story:| A first-time drunken driver will face a $2,250 civil penalty, plus fines and court costs that typically run about $500 or more. Driving without a license? That's a mandatory $900 civil penalty, in addition to the ordinary $100 for a fine and court costs. |
Sure looks milder than Dude's flogging suggestion. Why the Hell should anyone who drives drunk, endangering the lives of others, expect not to feel the punishment? Maybe hitting their pocket books will make an impression on their reckless behavior. And they are already going to be feeling a much greater monetary penalty when their car insurance rates zoom up.
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A public flogging would be less severe than working for almost four months to pay the fine.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 18:03:14 [Permalink]
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| Fuck 'em - you don't want to pay, then don't drive drunk and always carry your license. Is this too much to ask of people? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 18:27:45 [Permalink]
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| Let's see, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average weekly earnings in the first quarter of 2007 were $693. $3,000 paid in three installments over 26 months averages to $17.86 per week, or 2.5% of gross earnings, and 3.8% of after-tax earnings. Jerome seems to be off by a factor of about 7.8, which isn't too surprising if your intent is to spread FUD about the government. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 18:46:18 [Permalink]
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While I am fine in principle with using traffic fines as a deterrent for things like drunk driving or excessive speeding, I think $900 for driving without a license is a bit ridiculous.
Moreover, I find the notion of raising traffic fines in an effort to generate income for road improvements to be rather weak. Everyone uses and benefits from our highways and roads, and I think that everyone should pay. Unfortunately, we've been so trained to think that taxes are bad that politicians are scared to do anything about it. Instead, we get this sort of lottery system, and unlucky people get stuck with the bill. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:04:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
While I am fine in principle with using traffic fines as a deterrent for things like drunk driving or excessive speeding, I think $900 for driving without a license is a bit ridiculous. |
I think they mean without a license, and not "I left it at home." The cops can look up the status of your license based on your name, after all. And they do so, whether you had the license on you or not. I got stopped at a checkpoint one day because a cop mistook me for someone else and tried to tell me that my license had been suspended. My physical license, of course, didn't have "suspended" written across it, so the guy argued with me for a while before looking up my record.| Moreover, I find the notion of raising traffic fines in an effort to generate income for road improvements to be rather weak. Everyone uses and benefits from our highways and roads, and I think that everyone should pay. Unfortunately, we've been so trained to think that taxes are bad that politicians are scared to do anything about it. Instead, we get this sort of lottery system, and unlucky people get stuck with the bill. |
Well, that's a damn good point, although I think it could be argued that speeders, drunk drivers and those who couldn't pass the tests abuse the roads more than others. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:31:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Let's see, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average weekly earnings in the first quarter of 2007 were $693. $3,000 paid in three installments over 26 months averages to $17.86 per week, or 2.5% of gross earnings, and 3.8% of after-tax earnings. Jerome seems to be off by a factor of about 7.8, which isn't too surprising if your intent is to spread FUD about the government.
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Dave there are 12 months in a year not 26.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:38:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave there are 12 months in a year not 26. |
Read the article you linked to, Jerome:Virginians must pay in three installments over 26 months or lose their licenses.  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:45:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave there are 12 months in a year not 26. |
Read the article you linked to, Jerome:Virginians must pay in three installments over 26 months or lose their licenses.
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My statement was that the amount was about 30% of a yearly earning.(unless you think I was talking about lifetime earnings) Not how long you get to pay.
12 months in a year.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:48:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave there are 12 months in a year not 26. |
This is why I think you're an asshole, Jerome. First off, you don't even bother to read the article you cite. It clearly states:| Virginians must pay in three installments over 26 months or lose their licenses. |
It's right there. Second, you have to know that Dave is a pretty smart guy and is generally pretty fair in presenting data on these forums. But instead of asking a question, like "I'm curious as to why you used the 26-month figure, Dave" you offer this condescending comment with the asshole "[lol]" smiley like you've pointed out some obvious, comical flaw in his reasoning. When in fact, the comical flaw in this case is you.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:51:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
My statement was that the amount was about 30% of a yearly earning.(unless you think I was talking about lifetime earnings) Not how long you get to pay. |
But it's a meaningless statistic. Why not cite it as a percentage of one's monthly or weekly income? Otherwise, it's just fear-mongering.  |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:52:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave there are 12 months in a year not 26. |
This is why I think you're an asshole, Jerome. First off, you don't even bother to read the article you cite. It clearly states:| Virginians must pay in three installments over 26 months or lose their licenses. |
It's right there. Second, you have to know that Dave is a pretty smart guy and is generally pretty fair in presenting data on these forums. But instead of asking a question, like "I'm curious as to why you used the 26-month figure, Dave" you offer this condescending comment with the asshole "[lol]" smiley like you've pointed out some obvious, comical flaw in his reasoning. When in fact, the comical flaw in this case is you.
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By the way there are 12 months in the average earners year.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:54:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
My statement was that the amount was about 30% of a yearly earning.(unless you think I was talking about lifetime earnings) Not how long you get to pay. |
But it's a meaningless statistic. Why not cite it as a percentage of one's monthly or weekly income? Otherwise, it's just fear-mongering.
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It matters not how long the offender has to pay, it is still 30% of the average earners income in a year.
12 months in a year by the way.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:56:33 [Permalink]
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Cune, you sound like you buy those "easy low monthly payments".
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 20:03:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
My statement was that the amount was about 30% of a yearly earning.(unless you think I was talking about lifetime earnings) Not how long you get to pay.
12 months in a year.
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And since nobody has to pay the fine in a year, your comparison was either meaningless or it was fear-mongering. The average earner might complain to a judge, "but $3,000 is more than I gross in four months!" but the judge will reply, "well, you've got 26 months to pay it off - you can do the math, but it'll be $17.86 a week."
But even then, your math was off. The BLS states the average American's wage is $693 a week. After 40% taxes (a fraction more than this year's average), that's $21,621.60 a year. $3,000 is only 13.875% of that take-home pay, less than half of the 30% you claimed in your OP. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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$3000 TICKETS?
