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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:12:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
I agree that a fight for increased wellness care for everyone is good, and is a fight I fought for a long time, however it is to important to be done without commonscence throughout the entire process, and that alone excludes the government.
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Michael Moore has not stated that France or Canada or anywhere else is a utopia. He certainly let us know that Cuba, a poor country under attack by the U.S. for a century, does not have the equipment that the U.S. does. Even so, compare life expectancy rates and for that matter, compare just about any rate between Cuba and places like Washington, D.C.
I see no evidence that government is not better to deal with a lot of things than the so-called "free market" which itself does not exist without heavy government intervention.
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What, What, What?????
I see no evidnce that my neighbor is not better to deal with a lot of things...... I see a lot of evidence the government has the inability to do things right.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:16:51 [Permalink]
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You never worked for a corporation, did you?
Government does a lot of things right. Medicare is much more efficient than private insurers. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/06/2007 09:17:28 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:26:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Government does a lot of things right. Medicare is much more efficient than private insurers.
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Are you kidding about Medicare?
| Americans with Disabilities Suffer without Health Care and Incur Debt During Two-Year Wait for Medicare Coverage, Report Finds |
http://www.medicarerights.org/pressrelease2007_4frameset.html
Keep in mind the current insurance system is not without intense government regulation and therefore not a free market
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:26:34 [Permalink]
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http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070207B.shtml
| Medicare's administrative expenses are a small fraction of the administrative expenses of private insurers. Medicare uses just 2 percent of the money that flows through the system to cover administrative costs. By contrast, private insurers spend between 10 to 20 percent of their premiums to cover administrative costs. They use this money for marketing, high CEO salaries and dividends to shareholders; all expenses that Medicare does not have. |
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:29:45 [Permalink]
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So, what you're saying is that Medicare is so terrible, it would be a good idea to speed up the waiting period for people to start receiving said terrible Medicare.
Keep in mind the current insurance system is not without intense government regulation and therefore not a free market
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Right. A market without government (hence no private property) would be some kind of socialist anarchism (where everyone owns everything). |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/06/2007 09:31:43 |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:33:22 [Permalink]
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| For the purpose of te discussion we need to define waste. What is waste? |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:38:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Original_Intent
For the purpose of te discussion we need to define waste. What is waste?
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define "we".
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:49:58 [Permalink]
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Gordo, I am not defending the current semi-private system. I think the current system needs less regulation. You stated that Medicare is much more efficient than private insurance. I gave just one report that shows Medicare not efficient at all.
Do you think that if the government ran the food production and distribution system we would have more or less choice? Do you think we would have higher or lower prices? Would it be more or less efficient?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:56:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Gordo,
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Gorgo, please. I may be el Gordo, but the handle is Gorgo.
I am not defending the current semi-private system. I think the current system needs less regulation. You stated that Medicare is much more efficient than private insurance. I gave just one report that shows Medicare not efficient at all.
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No, you gave a report that said that people in certain circumstances had to wait for Medicare. In other words, people should get it faster. Fine. You think it's such a terrible system that you want them to get into it faster. Where is the report that said that this is less efficient than private insurance?
Do you think that if the government ran the food production and distribution system we would have more or less choice? Do you think we would have higher or lower prices? Would it be more or less efficient?
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Not getting into that. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/06/2007 09:58:47 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 09:59:32 [Permalink]
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Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 10:01:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
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What both systems? Water and sewer? Circulatory and respiratory? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 10:20:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
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What both systems? Water and sewer? Circulatory and respiratory?
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Health care system
Food production and distribution system
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 10:32:20 [Permalink]
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Health care system
Food production and distribution system
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Not getting into that. Off-topic. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 10:51:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME...
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
[. . .]
Health care system
Food production and distribution system |
Jerome, are you talking about the health care system and the food production and distribution system in the United States? If so, which of the two is not heavily regulated? Short answers please, so as to respect Gorgo's concern about going off topic.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 11:08:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by GeeMack
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME...
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
[. . .]
Health care system
Food production and distribution system |
Jerome, are you talking about the health care system and the food production and distribution system in the United States? If so, which of the two is not heavily regulated? Short answers please, so as to respect Gorgo's concern about going off topic.
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Although I do not think that this contrast and compare is off-topic; I did discontinue my argument.
These are two massive, compartmentalized systems that all citizens use and are needed in society. The difference is in the degree that government has regulated and in some cases usurped the free market. This difference allows us to examine the results in two similar systems controlled by different economic rules.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Sicko
