|
|
|
GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 11:20:47 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME...
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
[. . .]
Health care system
Food production and distribution system |
Jerome, a yes or no answer, please: Are you talking about the health care system and the food production and distribution system in the United States? And if yes, which of the two is not heavily regulated, the health care system, or the food production and distribution system? I'm requesting these short answers to respect Gorgo's desire to avoid going off topic.
|
 |
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2007 : 11:27:28 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by GeeMack
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME...
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
[. . .]
Health care system
Food production and distribution system |
Jerome, a yes or no answer, please: Are you talking about the health care system and the food production and distribution system in the United States? And if yes, which of the two is not heavily regulated, the health care system, or the food production and distribution system? I'm requesting these short answers to respect Gorgo's desire to avoid going off topic.
|
Yes, those two systems in the U.S.
Food production and distribution are not heavily regulated in comparison to the health care system.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 11:28:09 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Gorgo
You never worked for a corporation, did you?
Government does a lot of things right. Medicare is much more efficient than private insurers.
|
I worked for a corporation that when Medicare and Medicaid cut re-imbursement rates, sold the company to a larger corporation who cut costs (read the souls of the employees) to a point that all anyone had to have was a pulse and certification to be hired. Competency, not needed... Compassion, no longer required. Doing the job corectly.... ditto.
Ever wanted to know why anti-biotic resistent bacterias are a public health problem? Why there are so many non-healing surgical wounds that they need to open up clinics hat specialize in them? Because the government, through a combination of decreasing re-imbursemrnt leading to the lowest common denominator for employees has let the problem spread. It was economically more efficient for the govenment to let this problem get to the point where it effects far more people, then to allow the money to hire decent folk to control it.
I am skeptikal of the comaparsions of Medicare to private insurance. I would like to see the costs explained before accepting that the government can provide the service at the rate you forwarded.
I am waiting for something the government does on a comparable scale that it does right, along with a definition of "right." |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 11:32:22 [Permalink]
|
Ever wanted to know why anti-biotic resistent bacterias are a public health problem? Why there are so many non-healing surgical wounds that they need to open up clinics hat specialize in them? Because the government, through a combination of decreasing re-imbursemrnt leading to the lowest common denominator for employees has let the problem spread. It was economically more efficient for the govenment to let this problem get to the point where it effects far more people, then to allow the money to hire decent folk to control it.
|
Can you spend a little more time explaining this? Where do you get this information? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 11:34:05 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Gorgo
Originally posted by Original_Intent
For the purpose of te discussion we need to define waste. What is waste?
|
define "we".
|
Currently you and I. Anyone else want to help define waste, and the limitsto which it should be applied? |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 11:40:57 [Permalink]
|
Currently you and I. Anyone else want to help define waste, and the limitsto which it should be applied?
|
waste [weyst] Pronunciation Key
wast·ed, wast·ing, noun, adjective
–verb (used with object) 1. to consume, spend, or employ uselessly or without adequate return; use to no avail or profit; squander: to waste money; to waste words.
(edited for copyright purposes - from Dictionary.com)
Why are "we" defining the word "waste?" |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/06/2007 11:57:57 |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
|
|
Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 14:59:10 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Gorgo
Currently you and I. Anyone else want to help define waste, and the limitsto which it should be applied?
|
waste [weyst] Pronunciation Key
wast·ed, wast·ing, noun, adjective
–verb (used with object) 1. to consume, spend, or employ uselessly or without adequate return; use to no avail or profit; squander: to waste money; to waste words.
(edited for copyright purposes - from Dictionary.com)
Why are "we" defining the word "waste?"
|
But there are forms of waste. If I open an IV tubing set and drop it, it is waste. If a medication expires, it is waste. There is a lot of built in waste in medicine.
More expensive is the waste from dealing with regulations, and the rules set-forth in risk management. Documentation can be a huge waste.
The difirence, for exapmle between doing everything corectly and writing:
c-collar placed, patient placed on backboard, head immobilizer placed
AND
Immediate in-line C-spine immobilization. C-collar sized and placed. Patient log rolled onto backboard while maintiaing in-line C-Spine immobilization. Patient strapped to backbaord at nips, hips, and knees. Head immobilizers placed and strapped. Pateint secured to cot.
could be fodder in a lawsuit. And that is less then 5-minutes.
Does Medicare need a team of lawyers and risk-managers to watch everything? Can Medicare even be sued?
More later... too busy
|
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 15:54:33 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by GeeMack
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME...
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
[. . .]
Health care system
Food production and distribution system |
Jerome, a yes or no answer, please: Are you talking about the health care system and the food production and distribution system in the United States? And if yes, which of the two is not heavily regulated, the health care system, or the food production and distribution system? I'm requesting these short answers to respect Gorgo's desire to avoid going off topic.
|
Yes, those two systems in the U.S.
Food production and distribution are not heavily regulated in comparison to the health care system.
|
Haven't looked at HIPAA, JAHCO, the FDA's regulation of medical devices, or any other medical regulation, have you? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 16:16:07 [Permalink]
|
Valiant Dancer said:
Haven't looked at HIPAA, JAHCO, the FDA's regulation of medical devices, or any other medical regulation, have you? |
Are you attempting to equate regulatory agencies with government run health care?
What are you saying exactly? Your response is not to any point I was making in the quote you used.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 17:25:31 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME...
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
[. . .]
Health care system
Food production and distribution system
[. . .]
Yes, those two systems in the U.S. |
Jerome, regarding the health care system and the food production and distribution system in the United States, you've claimed that one is and one is not heavily regulated. Which of the two is not heavily regulated?
|
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 18:04:24 [Permalink]
|
GeeMack, in a comparison of the two the food delivery and production system is much less regulated than the health care system.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 18:06:15 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Original Intent
Ever wanted to know why anti-biotic resistent bacterias are a public health problem? Why there are so many non-healing surgical wounds that they need to open up clinics hat specialize in them? Because the government, through a combination of decreasing re-imbursemrnt leading to the lowest common denominator for employees has let the problem spread. It was economically more efficient for the govenment to let this problem get to the point where it effects far more people, then to allow the money to hire decent folk to control it.
|
As Gorgo asked: what evidence can you present for this claim? |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
|
|
|
GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 18:12:00 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME...
Gorgo, both systems are needed for a society. One is heavily regulated and the other is not. This is a fair contrast and compare.
[. . .]
Health care system
Food production and distribution system
[. . .]
Yes, those two systems in the U.S. |
Jerome, you've made a claim regarding the health care system and the food production and distribution system in the United States. You stated that one is heavily regulated and one is not. Let me try to make this simple for you. Two questions follow, each requiring a simple response of either yes or no...
Are you claiming that the United States health care system is not heavily regulated?
Are you claiming that the United States food production and distribution system is not heavily regulated?
|
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 18:19:11 [Permalink]
|
GeeMack, to do as you ask you must first, please define heavily regulated and to what are we comparing this definition to?
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
 |
|
Sicko
