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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2007 : 23:35:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
No, if you put your money in a coffee can you will lose approximately 3% value yearly. |
As I said: that's the only way that nobody will profit from your money, Jerome. Thanks for agreeing with me about something. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2007 : 23:37:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
No, if you put your money in a coffee can you will lose approximately 3% value yearly. |
As I said: that's the only way that nobody will profit from your money, Jerome. Thanks for agreeing with me about something.
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Wrong, the bankers will profit because my previous earnings are worth less when I redeem them at the bank.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2007 : 23:49:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Wrong again, just because I stole your money at the point of a gun and did it for your benefit (with a little for my effort) does not make this action anything less than theft. |
If you want to look at it that way, then either the government steals from everyone, or you steal from everyone when you get a bill that you can't afford.
No matter what, Jerome, in the world you live in, an unpaid bill is theft from society. The question isn't whether theft is okay, but instead what is the most equitable way to compensate for the theft that will always occur.
That's why I asked you if you'd prefer a return to the days of debtors prisons, because that's one possible solution. However, paying for the infrastructure and the guards will still be a theft from you, personally, in the form of taxes.
The only way to avoid such theft in healthcare is to deny service to those who can't pay up front. And such an option might leave you, Jerome, dead as a doornail if - through no fault of yours - a semi happened to jack-knife on top of your car and the resultant fire consumed your wallet. The ambulance driver wouldn't be able to swipe your credit card.
So, do you have a solution which won't kill you and won't steal from you, or are you just here to complain? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2007 : 23:53:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Wrong, the bankers will profit because my previous earnings are worth less when I redeem them at the bank. |
No, reedeming anything at the bank allows the bankers to profit. Why do you refuse to understand what I'm saying? Using the money you earn in any way allows someone to profit, Jerome. The only way for nobody to profit from your money is to not spend it ever.
In other words, the argument that someone will profit from some healthcare plan is pointless, because someone will profit from any healthcare plan - even none. It may not always be the same someone, but someone will profit when you use your money, Jerome. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 04:05:10 [Permalink]
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| Because I make a free choice to do these things of which you speak. Social health care is not free choice; it is coerced payment. Theft! |
This is why I have a problem discussing things with Libertarian types. One has to start from scratch and explain a different view of the world.
This is not your money. You do not make it alone. You make it as part of an imperfect system. The system does not work for everyone, so the system has to make allowances for that. In fact, the system (see an explanation of the Fed in previous mentioned online book for a good example) works by impoverishing many at the expense of a few.
It's time that the many stopped buying into the propaganda about "free markets" and individualism sold by the few. It's all crap. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/14/2007 04:06:40 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 05:32:45 [Permalink]
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| Counterspin has a segment on health care propaganda. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 07:32:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
| Because I make a free choice to do these things of which you speak. Social health care is not free choice; it is coerced payment. Theft! |
This is why I have a problem discussing things with Libertarian types. One has to start from scratch and explain a different view of the world.
This is not your money. You do not make it alone. You make it as part of an imperfect system. The system does not work for everyone, so the system has to make allowances for that. In fact, the system (see an explanation of the Fed in previous mentioned online book for a good example) works by impoverishing many at the expense of a few.
It's time that the many stopped buying into the propaganda about "free markets" and individualism sold by the few. It's all crap.
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Tell me, in what system of liberty do I lay claim to your labor?
If you want a system of shared communal resources that is a reasonable position to hold. Only, do not call this liberty.
What do you mean by "This is not your money"?
Money is generally a representation of your past labor. Who owns your labor?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 07:39:32 [Permalink]
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Money is generally a representation of your past labor. Who owns your labor?
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Money, on this planet, is a representation of who your daddy was, and has nothing to do with labor. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 08:00:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Money is generally a representation of your past labor. Who owns your labor?
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Money, on this planet, is a representation of who your daddy was, and has nothing to do with labor.
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Are you kidding?
Money is received in exchange for labor. Money is nothing but a tool of transaction.
Money is not finite.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 08:01:51 [Permalink]
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He thoroughly crushes Blitzer!
I love this kind of TV!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 08:03:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If you want a system of shared communal resources that is a reasonable position to hold. Only, do not call this liberty. |
So the only way to have a healthcare system that allows people to be free is to let people steal from doctors and hospitals? How would that ensure liberty for the healthcare workers? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 08:07:38 [Permalink]
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Right. God just hands it out to anyone who prays. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 08:13:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Right. God just hands it out to anyone who prays.
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No, it is created by the Federal Reserve banking system when loans are made.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 08:15:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If you want a system of shared communal resources that is a reasonable position to hold. Only, do not call this liberty. |
So the only way to have a healthcare system that allows people to be free is to let people steal from doctors and hospitals? How would that ensure liberty for the healthcare workers?
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How is the free exchange of service between a doctor and a patient not liberty?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Sicko
