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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2007 : 22:22:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
And then there is always the question of: Why? Why bother with our fractious, little clod when there is the whole Galaxy and beyond to investigate.
I kinda think that it's the "God created us in his image" syndrome; rather a conceit that we actually have a great importance in the Universe. Mayhap we have, but a quick look through any decent telescope can raise a lot of doubts as to that.
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Sasquatches come here so they can run around in the woods, have a back to nature experience and occaisonaly scare the bejessus out of the locals.
The Greys come here to indulge their fetish for inserting probes into various bodily orifices of humans, something that is illegal on their home planet.
You are all skeptical in order to compensate for you feelings of inferiority because the aliens have never chosen to abduct you. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2007 : 03:12:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
As Filthy alluded to, maybe star travel is effectively impossible. The cost benefit would be hard to take. Bankrupt a planet to send a few people on a 100 year journey with a low probability of success?
I don't know maybe the smart thing is to make the planet you live on as close to paradise as possible, instead of a giant garbage can.
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Ah, the voice of wisdom at last!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 08:10:54 [Permalink]
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| Ah, the voice of wisdom at last! |
Thank you, Filthy!
I would love to think that we could be a star faring people but I am afraid it will only be in the movies and books. Hope I am wrong.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 09:04:58 [Permalink]
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| I whole-heartedly agree, short of a new super propulsion technology, its Mars or nothing. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 17:57:37 [Permalink]
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Dave W.....
Thank you for your reply....
In all seriousness, I'm still unsure of what you are asking. You and marty seemed to make it clear in the older thread that you're not interested in anything so mundane as whether we think these sorts of reports are true. And if, as you ask, we grant the report as accurate for the sake of discussion, then what? On what would you have us render an opinion if not the veracity of the report?
I would like you, and others who have not already done so or who wish to offer another opinion, to render any opinion that they feel is appropriate as response to my question. Several members of this forum have already done this, and I thank them. If the opportunity to read Dr. Haisch's third example has allowed some of those who previously could not comment to now do so, I would welcome it at this time.
If anyone feels that the only response that they care to make is one concerning the veracity of this report, I have no problem with reading that or responding to it. It is just not what I am really interested in.
Possible examples (not suggestions) of what such opinions might be could include the following:
"All UFO reports are unmitigated nonsense"
"The existence of vetted UFO reports by multiple observers has piqued my interest in this subject. I need to do some research."
"It is clear that these reports are evidence of alien visitation"
"There are many possible explanations for these filtered reports, despite the fact that investigators could not find one. Some may in fact be anomalous, others mundane. As of now, I cannot say what I think"
"I need to read all of the filtered, vetted and investigated UFO reports that exist. Then compile a summary, and prepare an opinion stated in percentages of probability"
"I am impressed by the fact that a number of observers have simultaneously witnessed the same unusual phenomenon and have given similar reports; that these reports have been investigated, and no explanation has been found. I am intensely curious as to what is going on!"
"My opinion is that these observers have seen UNIDENTIFIED flying objects" (Thank you, Kil)
"My opinion is that you are a dishonest, lying, dickheaded troll with no balls"
These are only a few of many possible opinions that might be offered. All of them provide some insight about the way that different people perceive and process information, or something about the mindset of the perceivers, or both. Some provide information about the subject of UFO sightings. All three are of interest to me.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 18:02:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Dave W.....
Thank you for your reply....
In all seriousness, I'm still unsure of what you are asking. You and marty seemed to make it clear in the older thread that you're not interested in anything so mundane as whether we think these sorts of reports are true. And if, as you ask, we grant the report as accurate for the sake of discussion, then what? On what would you have us render an opinion if not the veracity of the report?
I would like you, and others who have not already done so or who wish to offer another opinion, to render any opinion that they feel is appropriate as response to my question. Several members of this forum have already done this, and I thank them. If the opportunity to read Dr. Haisch's third example has allowed some of those who previously could not comment to now do so, I would welcome it at this time.
If anyone feels that the only response that they care to make is one concerning the veracity of this report, I have no problem with reading that or responding to it. It is just not what I am really interested in.
Possible examples (not suggestions) of what such opinions might be could include the following:
"All UFO reports are unmitigated nonsense"
"The existence of vetted UFO reports by multiple observers has piqued my interest in this subject. I need to do some research."
"It is clear that these reports are evidence of alien visitation"
"There are many possible explanations for these filtered reports, despite the fact that investigators could not find one. Some may in fact be anomalous, others mundane. As of now, I cannot say what I think"
"I need to read all of the filtered, vetted and investigated UFO reports that exist. Then compile a summary, and prepare an opinion stated in percentages of probability"
"I am impressed by the fact that a number of observers have simultaneously witnessed the same unusual phenomenon and have given similar reports; that these reports have been investigated, and no explanation has been found. I am intensely curious as to what is going on!"
"My opinion is that these observers have seen UNIDENTIFIED flying objects" (Thank you, Kil)
"My opinion is that you are a dishonest, lying, dickheaded troll with no balls"
These are only a few of many possible opinions that might be offered. All of them provide some insight about the way that different people perceive and process information, or something about the mindset of the perceivers, or both. Some provide information about the subject of UFO sightings. All three are of interest to me. |
I guess now I am confused. I thought we were to comment on Haische's "mission statement" as noted in the original post of this thread notes (and which I tried to do). But it sounds now like that isn't the case. Am I missing something? |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 18:19:12 [Permalink]
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Cune.....
My last post was primarily directed to Dave W. and was an attempt on my part to answer a direct question that he had asked a litttle earlier.
You are certainly correct that I opened this thread with with an invitation to comment on Haisch's "introductory letter". (I was properly corrected on the use of the word "mission")
You have commented twice on the topic of this thread and I appreciate both of your responses, and have responded to you. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 20:06:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
I would like you, and others who have not already done so or who wish to offer another opinion, to render any opinion that they feel is appropriate as response to my question. |
Well, I can't find on the Web any verification of the Ocala story outside of what seem to be copies of what appears on Dr. Haisch's website, so I'm witholding all judgement until I have time to look in more detail, which won't be anytime soon. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 20:16:18 [Permalink]
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If the opportunity to read Dr. Haisch's third example has allowed some of those who previously could not comment to now do so, I would welcome it at this time.
If anyone feels that the only response that they care to make is one concerning the veracity of this report, I have no problem with reading that or responding to it. It is just not what I am really interested in. |
I would say there is no way to know what it was that was observed. I think it is interesting that the object was estimated at one point to be travleing at 7700 mph, however when the radar was tracking it the speed was 0 - 2 knots. If the radar had tracked the object at those great speeds it would be much more compelling than observers trying to estimate the speed of lights at night.
What was it? I don't know there is not enough information to decide.
How could this event possibly be considered to be evidence of space aliens?
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 23:10:31 [Permalink]
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Dave W......
Thank you. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 23:36:46 [Permalink]
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Furshur.....
I appreciate your post. Your point is well taken and I agree that radar indicating a speed of 7700 mph would be an astounding claim.I certainly don't think that this event, even if it had been documented by many more observers, tracked by multiple radars, and investigated by multiple military and civilian agencies; could be considered as evidence of space aliens.
I have read many filtered reports such as this (sightings), and none of them provide evidence of space aliens or extraterrestrial visitation. To my mind, proof of aliens is going to require tangible evidence (live or dead aliens) or at the very least, tangible evidence (landed and captured spacecraft) vetted by laboratory analysis. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 02:34:28 [Permalink]
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bngbuck said:
| I have read many filtered reports such as this (sightings), and none of them provide evidence of space aliens or extraterrestrial visitation. To my mind, proof of aliens is going to require tangible evidence (live or dead aliens) or at the very least, tangible evidence (landed and captured spacecraft) vetted by laboratory analysis. |
How about if they stopped by for a chat?
The single most absurdly absurd thing about the "UFO" is the assumption by so many that such things are evidence for extraterestrial life. How utterly ridiculous. Why would they bother to buz jet liners, hover over cities putting on light shows... or the hundreds of other things they are purported to be doing?
It doesn't seem unreasonable to conclude that any hypothetical alien species capable of crossing interstellar distances would be capable of communication, and that humans are no threat to them from a military/technological standpoint...
Unless they are invoking Star Trek's PRIME DIRECTIVE! But lets not anthropomorphize here.
If UFOs are actually aliens, why haven't they decided to speak to us?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 06:45:43 [Permalink]
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| I appreciate your post. Your point is well taken and I agree that radar indicating a speed of 7700 mph would be an astounding claim.I certainly don't think that this event, even if it had been documented by many more observers, tracked by multiple radars, and investigated by multiple military and civilian agencies; could be considered as evidence of space aliens. |
To be fair, if there was documented evidence of radar tracking an object moving at 7700 mph in our lower atmosphere and remaining intact that would indeed indicate something far beyond any known technology humans have.
I agree with Dude - why not land and have a beer with Filthy. Doesn't make any sense. If they are bound by the 'prime directive' then they are really screwing up because they are influencing our planet right now. If I was doing my work now instead of bullshitting on this subject, I might invent something that would solve global warming, er something.
Damn aliens.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 07:16:34 [Permalink]
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As to why; if they exist, they have not made contact: It could be that having had "first contact" before with other "species" on other planets, they have developed a gradual program of awareness so as to not create a shock in the population. We all remember the reaction to the radio broadcast War of the Worlds.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 07:47:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
We all remember the reaction to the radio broadcast War of the Worlds. |
Do we?...historians also claim that newspaper accounts over the following week greatly exaggerated the hysteria. There are estimates that about 20 percent of those listening believed it was real. That translates to less than a million people.
At the time, newspapers considered radio an upstart rival. Some in the print press, resentful of the superior radio coverage during the Munich crisis, may have sought to prove a point about the irresponsibility of the radio broadcast.
"The exaggeration of the War of the Worlds story can be interpreted as the print media's revenge for being badly scooped during the previous month," McLeod said.
- "War of the Worlds": Behind the 1938 Radio Show Panic I certainly don't remember any reaction, 'cause I wouldn't be born for another 28 years. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Brights' opinions of select UFO sightings P.S.
