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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 02:54:01
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According to BBC News: France warning of war with Iran
French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner says the world should prepare for war over Iran's nuclear programme.
"We have to prepare for the worst, and the worst is war," Mr Kouchner said in an interview on French TV and radio.
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Mr Kouchner said negotiations with Iran should continue "right to the end", but that an Iranian nuclear weapon would pose "a real danger for the whole world". |
French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/17/2007 03:02:12
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 03:59:26 [Permalink]
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| The war with Iran has already begun. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 09/17/2007 04:00:42 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 05:03:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
The war with Iran has already begun.
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One of the Google hits had a link to this list of ten signs that we are about to bomb Iran: 1. – The U.S. Navy stages a "surge exercise" and moves six carrier battle groups into the Indian Ocean.
2. – A "regularly scheduled exercise" moves Patriot Missile Batteies to Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. These exercises happen from time to time, but if they happen when other things are happening…
3. -- Movement of B-52 and B1B bombers to the island of Diego Garcia (in the Indian Ocean).
4. -- Deployment of F117 stealth bombers and F-22 fighters to anywhere in the Persian Gulf.
5. -- Deployment of B-2 Stealth Bombers to Guam, where there are special facilities for maintaining these aircraft.
6. -- Lockdown of Whitman Air Force Base (where most B-2 bombers are stationed) in Missouri.
7. -- Increased delivery of Pizza to Pentagon
8. –Sudden loss of cell service near some air force bases (from which heavy bombers would depart). At the same time, there would be sightings of Middle Eastern looking guys around these bases, trying to get their cell phones to work, while being observed by what appears to be FBI agents.
9. Deployment of KC-135/KC-10 aerial tankers to Diego Garcia, Guam and the Persian Gulf.
10. America asks nations neighboring Iran for basing and over flight rights.
These warning signs are no secret, and intelligence officers regularly run down their check lists. As a result, nations will sometimes stage a false alert by deliberately performing many of the items on someone's check list, with no intention of following through.
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I'll suppliment this list by repeating my own single warning sign, one that I feel would indicate a ground invasion of Iran: Watch for the sudden resignation of general-level US military officers. They presumably know a successful ground invasion would be a disaster.
It's my opinion:
1) Most of the nations of the world (whether they say so or not) are terrified of a militantly Islamist Iran getting the Bomb.
2) They are right to be concerned.
3) France sees a necessity of taking a more aggressive role in Cold War-style diplomacy, including saber-rattling, as they correctly see the Bushies as incompetent in this dangerous skill.
4) Ultimately, only Russia (in its roles of holding a Security Council veto, and as uranium supplier to Iran) is capable of reigning in Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions. Their decisions will determine if this is to continue as a Cold War, or become a hot war.
5) If this stand-off becomes a full armed struggle, I think the US will limit itself mainly to bombing Iran's nuclear facilities and defending the Gulf States.
6) I hope to Hell we won't either use nukes ourselves (a temptation in getting at Iran's underground facilities), or launch an invasion. If we do either, the US may as well kiss off the next several decades. Use of nuclear weapons would make us pariahs everywhere, while a ground invasion would effectively destroy our military.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/17/2007 05:10:40 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 05:16:35 [Permalink]
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| Up until all the aggressive action by the U.S., there never was the slightest danger of Iran wanting anything to do with nuclear weapons, and there probably still isn't the slightest danger. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 06:21:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Up until all the aggressive action by the U.S., there never was the slightest danger of Iran wanting anything to do with nuclear weapons, and there probably still isn't the slightest danger.
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You have any private evidence that those two points are so?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 07:18:00 [Permalink]
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I'm not sure what significance the adjective 'private' has in your question. Do I have information? I have information that Ahmadinejad has been demonized. I have information that the Mullahs who are running the country (not the President) have said they are against nuclear weapons. I have information that the United States attacks other countries and makes up shit. I have information that the U.S. tried to help the Shah get nuclear power. I have lots of information.
Do I know for sure that an independent country is trying to create weapons 20 years in the future in order to keep an aggressive U.S. from attacking it as North Korea tried to do? I don't have that information. Who would blame them if they did? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 07:59:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
I'm not sure what significance the adjective 'private' has in your question. Do I have information? I have information that Ahmadinejad has been demonized. I have information that the Mullahs who are running the country (not the President) have said they are against nuclear weapons. I have information that the United States attacks other countries and makes up shit. I have information that the U.S. tried to help the Shah get nuclear power. I have lots of information.
Do I know for sure that an independent country is trying to create weapons 20 years in the future in order to keep an aggressive U.S. from attacking it as North Korea tried to do? I don't have that information. Who would blame them if they did?
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By "private," I meant I certainly hadn't seen such information, and wondered if you had some alternative source. Apparently, you don't.
Ahmadinejad is an SOB. I prefer not to refer to anyone as a "demon," as that's taken very literally these days. You can't get much lower on the SOB scale than someone who denies the friggin' Holocaust, IMO.
I think it's natural for the French, Germans, and, yes, the US, to be worried about a Jihadist state getting its hands on nuclear weapons at any time. Especially a state that supplies weapons and troops to terrorists in their region,
Kim was never, in my opinion, trying to defend himself with nukes. He was trying a strange and dangerous game to win economic concessions from the world. Thank goodness the world did drive a bargain with him. It took a lot of pressure to do so, and some very major concessions. But the result was worth it. Now the world needs to do much the same with Iran. It's that, or eventual war, whether or not the West launches the first attack.
I trust the word of Iran's mullahs about as far as I would those of the "Christian" signers of the Land Letter.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 08:49:23 [Permalink]
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Since the war between Iran and Iraq, Iran has been rather peaceful toward it's neighbours, even though the religious leaders have made a lot of rhetorics. The War of Aggression that USA has waged against Iraq clealy demonstrate that the US government is certainly capable of making shit up in order to justify to its population that an invasion is perfectly reasonable.
I certainly don't blame Iran for arming themselves with nukes for retaliation against aggressors, especially since I see USA rattling guns with a mad president at the helm.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 09:21:37 [Permalink]
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| The most visible of these is the CIA-backed actions recently undertaken by the Mujahadeen el-Khalq, or MEK, an Iranian opposition group, once run by Saddam Hussein's dreaded intelligence services, but now working exclusively for the CIA's Directorate of Operations. |
From here: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0620-31.htm
I don´t know how trustworthy this info is, however It sounds like the same old story. Granted that the goverment of Iran aren´t angels, but using these guys as allies?
Cheers!
perro de tokio |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 09:28:50 [Permalink]
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Yeah, Moon, it sounds like you've bought into a lot of crap, public and private.
What the President of Iran, who has no power to make decisions about nuclear weapons has said, is that IF the Holocaust happened, it was Europeans who created it, and it should be Europeans whose land was taken to try to erase the guilt of Europeans, not Arabs. That's a loose description. He has not threatened to erase Israel off the map, either.
I am not aware of any statements by the President of Iran that the Holocaust did not happen. Even if he did, that has no bearing on anything. He has no power to wage war.
I have seen the United States, repeatedly, engage in very criminal wars, and they have begun their illegal aggressions against Iran. Things that they would not allow on U.S. soil, are happening all over the world committed in the name of National Security. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 09/17/2007 09:31:42 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:01:43 [Permalink]
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This is not news. In fact we were told about this in 1997. This is only news to those not paying attention.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:53:30 [Permalink]
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| Whats not news? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 15:03:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is not news. In fact we were told about this in 1997. This is only news to those not paying attention.
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Those guys from the link above are lunatics!
This part is specially horrible:
| • we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values; |
Regardless of the regimes not posing a physical threat to the US?
(edited to change "phisical" to "physical") |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
| Edited by - perrodetokio on 09/17/2007 15:06:17 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 16:07:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by perrodetokio
Those guys from the link above are lunatics!
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Those are the people running the current America government!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 16:10:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Whats not news?
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That Iran was next. Syria is in the cue.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 17:39:07 [Permalink]
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YO:
Jerry Gnome's linking us to The Project for the New American Century map, with Bill Krystol's signature below it, is surely some of the scariest shit out today. These fuckers are as insane and visionless as most right wing religious zealots who think their "faith" gives them the right to go around blowing up innocent people.
One of the "funniest" things I read today among all the sabre rattling, is Bush's surprise that Greenspan calls Dubya irresponsible, and that the Iran invasion, occupation and subsequent civil war are about oil.
Clearly, Bush doesn't know he's incompetent, but I wonder what his surprise comes from insofar as Iraq being all about oil. Does it mean that the president didn't think that Greenspan would let the cat out of bag, or that the former Fed Chairman just recently realized this tragedy is based primarily on the petroleum imperative sanctioned by Texas oilmen.
I watched Greenspan and Stahl on 60 Minutes last night. I'd venture a guess that Alan's IQ is higher than that of George Wanker Bush.
Let's hope we get a presidential election to vote in---come November, 2008.
Oilwellingly Yurz, OY |
"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
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French Foreign Minister warns of war with Iran
