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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 19:53:21 [Permalink]
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| We have been at war for 25+ years. ABout time people started fguring that out. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 20:55:50 [Permalink]
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I have what I consider to be a moderate position on Iran. I believe there is plenty of clear evidence that Iran is controlled by the nutty, fundy mullahs. In fact, that's how the system is officially set up there: A democratic parliamentary system with its decisions subject to reversal by a shadow government of mullahs. A shadow government with its own army and militia.
I hope, and believe, that the nuclear issue can be resolved. I oppose an invasion or nuking of that country under any circumstances.
I don't see how my position is in any manner a case of me buying into the Bushie's NeoCon atrocities. And I ask, why has France taken the position it has? I can't think of another country less inclined to follow the lead of Bush. In fact, I believe they are following their own logic.
I'm not going to "heroically" continue to propound my thoughts on this subject here alone. I just don't have the energy, and would prefer to spend time with humor. I've stated my opinion, and will probably just leave it that way.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 21:35:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I have what I consider to be a moderate position on Iran. I believe there is plenty of clear evidence that Iran is controlled by the nutty, fundy mullahs. In fact, that's how the system is officially set up there: A democratic parliamentary system with its decisions subject to reversal by a shadow government of mullahs. A shadow government with its own army and militia.
I hope, and believe, that the nuclear issue can be resolved. I oppose an invasion or nuking of that country under any circumstances.
I don't see how my position is in any manner a case of me buying into the Bushie's NeoCon atrocities. And I ask, why has France taken the position it has? I can't think of another country less inclined to follow the lead of Bush. In fact, I believe they are following their own logic.
I'm not going to "heroically" continue to propound my thoughts on this subject here alone. I just don't have the energy, and would prefer to spend time with humor. I've stated my opinion, and will probably just leave it that way.
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So; if Iran can make nuclear energy, how would they threaten America?
They have no missiles that could hit the USA.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 21:37:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Original_Intent
We have been at war for 25+ years. ABout time people started fguring that out.
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Which one?
WAR ON POVERTY?
WAR ON DRUGS?
WAR ON TERRORIST?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 22:08:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Original_Intent
We have been at war for 25+ years. ABout time people started fguring that out.
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Which one?
WAR ON POVERTY?
WAR ON DRUGS?
WAR ON TERRORIST? |
I am fairly certain he was talking about the part US played in the Iran-Iraq War.
Or were you trying to be clever?
For what it's worth, the word "war" has been overused by politicians; however, the wars on drugs and terror are closer (but not completely) to the accepted definition since they use military force to accomplish their ideological objectives. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 22:33:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Boron10
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Original_Intent
We have been at war for 25+ years. ABout time people started fguring that out.
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Which one?
WAR ON POVERTY?
WAR ON DRUGS?
WAR ON TERRORIST? |
I am fairly certain he was talking about the part US played in the Iran-Iraq War.
Or were you trying to be clever?
For what it's worth, the word "war" has been overused by politicians; however, the wars on drugs and terror are closer (but not completely) to the accepted definition since they use military force to accomplish their ideological objectives.
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I think he was talking about terrorism.
Yes, I was being clever in describing wars that are created that have an impossibly of end.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 22:47:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
So; if Iran can make nuclear energy, how would they threaten America?
They have no missiles that could hit the USA. |
But the US has allies in the region, and Iran could attack any nearby country with nuclear weapons.
Of course, Iran's ties to known terrorist organizations is also of great interest to the US.
Last, though Iran has not openly declared intentions to make nuclear weapons, they have hinted at it and have made any type of international atomic oversight difficult. Only recently (about a week ago) has Iran allowed any real oversight (although, the IAEA did vouch for Iran's peaceful intentions).
This leaves the US in a quandry. The IAEA says that Iran's nuclear intentions are exclusively commercial (not military); but Iran openly supports terrorists like Hezbollah, openly supports anti-Israeli rhetoric, and has the potential to make nuclear weapons (it is impossible to inspect the entire country for centrifuges).
Do you recommend we just stand back let them all kill each other? |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 23:01:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Boron10
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
So; if Iran can make nuclear energy, how would they threaten America?
They have no missiles that could hit the USA. |
But the US has allies in the region, and Iran could attack any nearby country with nuclear weapons.
Of course, Iran's ties to known terrorist organizations is also of great interest to the US.
Last, though Iran has not openly declared intentions to make nuclear weapons, they have hinted at it and have made any type of international atomic oversight difficult. Only recently (about a week ago) has Iran allowed any real oversight (although, the IAEA did vouch for Iran's peaceful intentions).
This leaves the US in a quandry. The IAEA says that Iran's nuclear intentions are exclusively commercial (not military); but Iran openly supports terrorists like Hezbollah, openly supports anti-Israeli rhetoric, and has the potential to make nuclear weapons (it is impossible to inspect the entire country for centrifuges).
Do you recommend we just stand back let them all kill each other?
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The answer to all your statements is also; even more so, Pakistan.
???
Why no preemptive strike on the Pakies?
I know, I know. It was not spelled out in the PNAC!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 01:18:43 [Permalink]
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I'm not going to "heroically" continue to propound my thoughts on this subject here alone. I just don't have the energy, and would prefer to spend time with humor. I've stated my opinion, and will probably just leave it that way.
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You have, and that is reasonable. However, while the U.S., and France have attacked and threatened other countries, and Iran hasn't, I'll worry about the U.S. and France.
The U.S. is a terrorist state. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 09/18/2007 01:19:59 |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 07:09:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Original_Intent
We have been at war for 25+ years. ABout time people started fguring that out.
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Which one?
WAR ON POVERTY?
WAR ON DRUGS?
WAR ON TERRORIST?
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Lets see, during the revolution they held hostages.... Carter recognzed this, and sent troops, which ended badly. He wimped out after that.
Iran has, nad continues to train terrorists, and support terrorism educationaly, materially, and financially.
Just becuase it is not a declared war, dosen't make it a war, which you should realize from Korea, Vietnam, Guam, Panama, Afghanistan, and Iraq. We did not go to war with any of those countries.
This could have been handled in the 70's with far less problems then handling it today. It has been a war with few casualties, but the intrest on blood-debt compunds with every technological advance they make, every moment they are allowed to dig in, every enemy they finance. |
| Edited by - Original_Intent on 09/18/2007 07:10:17 |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 07:21:03 [Permalink]
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| We have been at war for 25+ years. ABout time people started fguring that out. |
Longer than that. We essentially declared war when the CIA cause the democratically elected goverment to be kicked out and we put in a dictator - the Shah of Iran in the early 50s.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 08:09:18 [Permalink]
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http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=426
Found this article by Pilger which I think spells out pretty well what's going on.
The government of Iran has only become and will only become more repressive as the U.S. becomes more belligerent. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 09/20/2007 : 17:01:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
The government of Iran has only become and will only become more repressive as the U.S. becomes more belligerent.
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Hear! Hear!
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 17:09:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
You have, and that is reasonable. However, while the U.S., and France have attacked and threatened other countries, and Iran hasn't, I'll worry about the U.S. and France.
The U.S. is a terrorist state.
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That type of quote may get you a visit in the near future.  |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 17:12:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
| We have been at war for 25+ years. ABout time people started fguring that out. |
Longer than that. We essentially declared war when the CIA cause the democratically elected goverment to be kicked out and we put in a dictator - the Shah of Iran in the early 50s.
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BINGO
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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French Foreign Minister warns of war with Iran
