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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
 Posted - 06/28/2002 : 19:27:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
It was inevitable: Religious right columnist Cal Thomas has weighed in, suggesting that the pledge decision is worse than the 9-11 terror attacks:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20020628.shtml
This column comes immediately after one in which he chastises the Bush administration for suspending due process for the dirty-bomber fellow. His reasoning? Naturally that the dirty-bomber is still a US citizen and is still entitled to the rights and protections outlined in, yep, the Constitution.
I am simply beyond words at this point. To have to deal with so many voices that belong to so many people who are so jaw-droppingly inconsistent from day-to-day, moment-to-moment is numbing.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2002 : 20:46:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
It was inevitable: Religious right columnist Cal Thomas has weighed in, suggesting that the pledge decision is worse than the 9-11 terror attacks:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20020628.shtml
This column comes immediately after one in which he chastises the Bush administration for suspending due process for the dirty-bomber fellow. His reasoning? Naturally that the dirty-bomber is still a US citizen and is still entitled to the rights and protections outlined in, yep, the Constitution.
I am simply beyond words at this point. To have to deal with so many voices that belong to so many people who are so jaw-droppingly inconsistent from day-to-day, moment-to-moment is numbing.
And everyone yells at me when I say people are morons!
This is part of an email I got today. Don't know how I got on the mailing list but here it is:
(BTW, I replied saying that anyone who believes in god is mentaly ill. Wonder if they will answer that. )
Subj: Pledge of Allegiance Decision Renews Call to End Judicial Crisis
Date: 6/28/02 3:48:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: eLeader@mail.echampions2000.com (Jack Oliver, RNC Deputy Chairman)
To: snkeys@aol.com
Click below to Forward to a Friend.
http://www.rnc.org/Friend/sendtoafriend.asp
Radical Court in San Francisco Rules the Pledge of Allegiance Unconstitutional
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco has ruled that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional. Americans should be outraged at this irresponsible decision. This radical court found that the reciting of the pledge by teachers and students "amounts to a government endorsement of religion," going so far as to compare the phrase "under God" with "under Zeus." Just last month this same court found that certain people could smoke marijuana on federal lands if it is part of their religion.
This ruling is further proof that we need to end the judicial crisis and fill the vacancies with the men and women of distinction that President Bush has nominated. Today, there are 31 circuit judges missing from the bench. President Bush has nominated quality individuals to fill nearly 90% of these vacancies. All of these nominations are languishing in the Senate.
While has sought to place responsible, common sense jurists in our courts, Democrats in the Senate continue to play partisan games. Make sure your community knows that you are outraged that the judicial crisis is being perpetuated by partisan games. Write your news editors today!
Click below to get the facts and write your news editors today!
http://www.gopteamleader.com/actions/view_alert_echamp.asp?id=77
* * * * * *
*Carabao forever.
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Bye, bye Los Angeles. SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES.
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2002 : 23:04:44 [Permalink]
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It appears Lieberman the flounder is leading the charge for a Constitutional Amendment sanctifying "under God" as part of the pledge. The delicious irony is that even considering such an amendment is tacit admission that the Constitution cannot currently support the presence of religious language in the pledge. They are quite afraid of the truth: that the 1954 Congressional mandate won't hold up, and the God-phrase is clearly unconstitutional without any force of law behind it.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 11:14:59 [Permalink]
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COngatulations
Thunbs up to it all, theres not much news of it all over here, but I had a quiet beer to celebrate for you all last night....
The fundie forums are blaming everyone from the communists to us godless atheists...
A sample :
quote:
The shrieks coming from the anti under God crowd has intensified, exposing a sneak peek at their true beliefs: they would be happy with NO pledge at all. These wacko fringe leftwing crackpots believe in secular humanism and the power of the state. If they weren't so dangerous to our freedoms, they'd be laughable.
quote:
Instead of "we the people" the liberals are pushing forward "we the government".
We have seen what happens to Godless nations.
quote:
I don't knkow WHAT planet you're from, but THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED A CHRISTIAN NATION!!!!!!!
MORON!
"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties." --- Shooter McGavin |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 11:20:06 [Permalink]
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Fundie forums? Where?
Edit to add:
I don't want to troll, just to watch and gloat. :)
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Every problem has a solution. Only sometimes the solutions involve imaginary numbers and make my head hurt.
Edited by - Xev on 06/29/2002 11:23:24 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 11:29:07 [Permalink]
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How is it that attempts to block the forcing of religion on everyone ends up being the fault of atheists or whoever doesn't agree with them? What's even more ironic is that if they ever got a chance to eliminate all the non-Christians they would next go after each other until only the largest Christian denomination was left standing and that this is part of what the constitution is set up to prevent. It's not Chiristians vs everyone else but also to protect Christians from each other which was the issue in 1776.
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 11:35:20 [Permalink]
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I'm also sick and tired of the religious right continually proclaiming that the US was set up as a Christian nation. I should think that this could be used as an argument against school vouchers. The religious schools do not teach the facts. Just think of how the school voucher decision could harm the US with more and more children going to these schools reading Christian interpretation of history rather than getting the truth from the writings of people like Jefferson. And let's not even get into evolution. I am suddenly awash with a feeling of impending doom and that in a few decades the US will be back to treating people with leeches and burning witches.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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NottyImp
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 11:56:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
I am suddenly awash with a feeling of impending doom and that in a few decades the US will be back to treating people with leeches and burning witches.
As a European (and a Briton in particular) I'm always amazed when I see the results of polls from the US on religious topics that consistently return high percentages for what I would call fairly fundamentalist Christian view-points.
Over here, we seem far more secular, despite not having a specific separation of Church and State as you do (in fact, the monarch is also the head of the Church of England).
Tony Blair is a practising Christian, and he definitely tries to bring "Christian Centrism" (for want of a better term) onto the agenda, but this has almost no effect on the machinery of State, or policy-making, as far as I can determine. Even the overtly right-wing Tories rarely bring religion directly onto the agenda, although I would guess that there's a few fundy nutcases amongst them.
Sorry, just musing here on the differences between our apparently similar societies. In the meantime, keep up the struggle and don't get down-hearted 
"My body is a temple - I desecrate it daily." |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 12:58:58 [Permalink]
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Thanks.
You know, a few of those people seemed intelligent:
"Shouldn't an American citizen be able to show their patriotism without also claiming to believe in God. The two are not, and never have been, synonymous.
Joshua"
Not bad for a fundie. :)
Mayhaps there is hope.
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Every problem has a solution. Only sometimes the solutions involve imaginary numbers and make my head hurt. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 14:12:21 [Permalink]
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No, all fundamentalists are not idiots. If they all could separate their faith and keep it where it belongs everything would be cool. Unfortunately, most don't seem to understand that the constition does not promote atheism so much as neutrality. Work is for work, school is for school and the curch is for religious functions and you can do whatever the hell you want at home.
But one thing I haven't heard many say is that by saying "one nation under god" atheists are excluded because they don't qhite see it that way. We are one nation under a constitution that protects(or so it should) everyone's right to practice as they wish. But the majority seems to think that only applies to them and the non-believers are just whiners. One commentator on Fox News last night said to a guest from American Atheists that he didn't look like a victim. She said it over and over and i just wish that I had been there so I could have said that from where I was sitting she sure looked like an oppressor.
I also found this decent article on Slate:
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2067499
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 22:14:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Thanks.
You know, a few of those people seemed intelligent:
"Shouldn't an American citizen be able to show their patriotism without also claiming to believe in God. The two are not, and never have been, synonymous.
Joshua"
Not bad for a fundie. :)
Actually, Rev. Joshua is anything but a fundamentalist. He's been posting occasionally at infidels and his beliefs seem almost Spong-esque from the little I've seen of him. Certainly, theists of his ilk are among our greatest allies during times like these.
Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.
-D. Hume
Edited by - phdreamer on 06/29/2002 22:15:07 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2002 : 22:52:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Over here, we seem far more secular, despite not having a specific separation of Church and State as you do (in fact, the monarch is also the head of the Church of England).
Notty, that's what I've been told by some of my on line friends that I write to who are from overseas and Briton. Ones that I've meet in groups other than for atheism or philosophy type subjects. I like to let them know I'm not your average 'American' and they never have a problem with it.
As you see it's other Americans who can't stand when someone has a different thought from theirs.
I find it so amusing that, from what I studied about American history, people started coming to the 'New World' because of religious persecution. Is that ironic or what?
* * * * * *
*Carabao forever.
-----------------
Bye, bye Los Angeles. SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SECESSION - YES.
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2002 : 10:49:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Over here, we seem far more secular, despite not having a specific separation of Church and State as you do (in fact, the monarch is also the head of the Church of England).
Our Head of State (Governor General) is the ex-Anglican Archbishop of Brisbane. Appointed by our Anglican Prime Minister. So much for seperation of Church and State.....
The funny thing is, the Governer General has the power to dismiss the Prime Minister, so the one you appoint as G-G can sack you...crazy huh...
More reason for Australia to become a republic I think.
"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties." --- Shooter McGavin |
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NottyImp
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2002 : 11:38:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Notty, that's what I've been told by some of my on line friends that I write to who are from overseas and Briton.
That's not to say there aren't plenty of devout Christians (and for that matter, Muslims, Hindus et al) in Britain, it's just that by-and-large they keep it in their place of worship. If you asked the average Briton if we were (or even should be) a Christian nation, they'd probably say "Well, maybe, but really I'm not that bothered".
We have plenty of racism and ghettoisation in this country as well, but we also have an heir to the throne who avowedly wants to be a "Defender of faith" rather than a "defender of THE faith" (as is now behoven of him, should he succeed to the throne). Not that I agree with that either, but can you imagine Bush saying anything similar?!
quote:
I find it so amusing that, from what I studied about American history, people started coming to the 'New World' because of religious persecution. Is that ironic or what?
Yes, that is somewhat ironic. And those same people's descendents went on to specifically guard against the admixing of Church and State in your Constitution, which makes it even more ironic. Perhaps Americans need to remember their own history a little better.
"My body is a temple - I desecrate it daily."
Edited by - NottyImp on 06/30/2002 11:43:10 |
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