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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend
USA
85 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2002 : 04:05:50 [Permalink]
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Hate Crime is simply Thought Crime. That is all there is to it.
Once laws start talking "intent" as a criminal element or as a modifier of degree(you deserve more punishment than a normal murderer, because you don't like white people), you are heading down the path of Thought Crime.
With psychopaths like Bush and Ashcroft in charge, any sort of Thought Crime laws and rhetoric make me very nervous. |
Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 05:40:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Once laws start talking "intent" as a criminal element or as a modifier of degree(you deserve more punishment than a normal murderer, because you don't like white people), you are heading down the path of Thought Crime.
I agree completely, but would like to add a modifier. Intent is an important consideration in certain circumstances. For instance, if I broke into the grocery store to steal food to feed my starving child would be much different than if I broke in because I'm too anti-social to find a job and support myself. As far as whether I beat someone because I hated their skin color, or that I beat them because I hated the way they talk to me is the same.
This is why I believe the discretion should be left to the individual judges within a presribed sentencing framework. The distinction is subtle, but I think necessary. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 11:34:33 [Permalink]
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Yes I agree... Intent is a criminal modifier. It's something that gives motive to a person committing a crime. A person with a motive, whether it be committing murder because someone pissed them off, or committing murder because someone is black, is far more likely to be convicted of a crime than someone with no motive or intent at all.
quote:
Tim:
Intent is an important consideration in certain circumstances. For instance, if I broke into the grocery store to steal food to feed my starving child would be much different than if I broke in because I'm too anti-social to find a job and support myself.
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--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 17:55:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Legallee Insane
Yes I agree... Intent is a criminal modifier. It's something that gives motive to a person committing a crime. A person with a motive, whether it be committing murder because someone pissed them off, or committing murder because someone is black, is far more likely to be convicted of a crime than someone with no motive or intent at all
Isn't why there are 1st and 2nd degrees or manslaughter, etc., catagories in prosecution?
A personal note, my cousin who was murdered was white, the man who killed her was white. Had one or the other been of different race is that when the 'hate' crime begins? I wouldn't like to think he'd have gotten more or less time in jail for the hatred he had for her just because he was of the same race. |
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 23:36:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake:
A personal note, my cousin who was murdered was white, the man who killed her was white. Had one or the other been of different race is that when the 'hate' crime begins?
I don't think it would be considered a hate crime unless there was some clear racial prejudice behind the motive. I have heard, though, that a black man is several times more likely to be convicted of murder than a white man. I have also heard that a black man would be slightly more likely to receive the death penalty, though I'm not sure how true that would be. |
--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you." |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2002 : 10:26:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Legallee Insane
Yes I agree... Intent is a criminal modifier. It's something that gives motive to a person committing a crime. A person with a motive, whether it be committing murder because someone pissed them off, or committing murder because someone is black, is far more likely to be convicted of a crime than someone with no motive or intent at all.
Actually, intent would be better defined as what the perpetrator wants the result of his/her act to be.
The same motive could serve as the basis for a variety of different acts. For example, suppose that being pissed off at someone leads you to walk up and sucker-punch them; as a direct result of this the victim falls, smashes his head and dies of that injury.
Now suppose that your rage is so intractable that you discharge it by walking up to the person, pulling out a gun and shooting them several times. As a direct result of this the victim dies.
In each case the victim is dead; the difference lies in what your intention was. In the first case, your desire was very likely simply to inflict a bloody nose, in the second it's perfectly reasonable to deduce that unless you were totally ignorant of the nature of a gun, your desire was to kill. That's a difference in intent, and the difference between manslaughter and murder.
The idea that criminal intent is a sine qua non of committing a crime goes back a long way in our legal thinking; it's hardly unique to hate crime legislation. |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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ntech
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2002 : 16:42:39 [Permalink]
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| Hate crime for sure. It is meant to frighten. |
Faith is to the human what sand is to the ostrich. - Anonymous
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