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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2003 : 17:56:00 [Permalink]
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Gezzam
Not that I have complained all that much about the taxes I pay, after seeing how much you pay I don't feel so bad.
Do you feel that you are getting a good bang for your buck?
I can't speak for all Canadians but the one's I know are quite complacent when it comes to govenment policy. We bitch more when we've had a few pints, but it usually ends there. I have now accepted taxes as a fact of life, pass the beer nuts. |
How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?
-- Woody Allen, Without Feathers, 1975 |
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Cold in here
New Member
Canada
48 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2003 : 19:40:11 [Permalink]
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Rick: I am from Oakville, Ontario, home of the most outrageous property taxes in Canada. Our house, put mildly, is a piece of s**t, and it's over $6,000/year property taxes. Aside from that though, I'm a student at UNB and I get a very generous return from both provincial and federal governments. More about New Brunswick however, if you're interested: HST (harmonized sales tax) 15%; property taxes, extremely low only about $650 for a decent home; medical care, free; a 2-4 of Keiths, $30; sorry, I don't smoke...but the last pack I bought for someone, Benson & Hedges Gold, $7.51 for 20 smokes; fuel 72 - 73 cents per litre. Auto insurance, however is higher than it is here in Ontario. I don't have a job so I don't pay income taxes in either province. I agree totally about the bitching over a pint thing...i'm perfectly happy knowing I can get stupid drunk, bitch about the system, get alcohol poisoning, need a stomach pump at the hosipital, and end up with the only bill for the evening being for the numerous Black and Tans consumed. Eat your heart out Ralph Klein...damned privatizing, system ruining son-of-a-bugger 
Gezzam: Damn. I drive a V12 Jaguar and I seriously feel the your pain on the gas prices. Last time I fuelled up it was 92 cents per litre...a friendly bill of about $55 Cdn to fill the tank (yeah, twice a week!)  |
Toronto is the capital of Canada, and I live in a giant igloo. Blubber anyone? |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2003 : 00:03:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cold in here
i'm perfectly happy knowing I can get stupid drunk, bitch about the system, get alcohol poisoning, need a stomach pump at the hosipital, and end up with the only bill for the evening being for the numerous Black and Tans consumed.
An on line friend of mine in Canada, if I recall correctly, said it can take a long time to see a specialist doctor when you need one. You can't just walk in and say you want to see someone. Is that right? If that's the price you pay for getting free medical, I'm not sure it's worth that price (or the high taxes).
Here in the USA or at least in Los Angeles the emergency clinics are full, many times with people who don't need that kind of care. It can take hours to see a doctor. How is it in Canada for that service? |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2003 : 12:26:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake: Here in the USA or at least in Los Angeles the emergency clinics are full, many times with people who don't need that kind of care. It can take hours to see a doctor.
It should be pointed out that many of these people are at the ER because they can't afford health insurance.... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2003 : 13:06:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by rickm
Gezzam
Not that I have complained all that much about the taxes I pay, after seeing how much you pay I don't feel so bad.
Do you feel that you are getting a good bang for your buck?
In a way I was not quite forthcoming, I should have added that I am in the higher tax bracket earning quite a good salary. Earning a good salary means I can afford a good accountant and having a good accountant enables me to get quite a substantial tax return every July - which is only 6 weeks away….woohoo. The problem there is, the time my wife spends browsing in antique shops increases proportionately to the arrival of said tax return.
People earning under 42,000 a year (I think) only pay 32 cents in the dollar and those earning under 27,000 pay even less. Not super sure on those figures, but close enough for you to get the jist of it.
I suppose I can't complain, I own a nice apartment near the CBD and my office. I have just bought a new car and I have never had the need for a credit card. Although I do work long hours, my job is relatively stress free. I could do with paying less tax, but we have free medical, free public schooling and a fairly generous unemployment and disability scheme. Most people in Australia get at least the basic necessities. If you need specialist care you need private health cover though, I recently dislocated my shoulder playing football and having private health got me straight in the door.
quote:
Gezzam: Damn. I drive a V12 Jaguar and I seriously feel the your pain on the gas prices. Last time I fuelled up it was 92 cents per litre...a friendly bill of about $55 Cdn to fill the tank (yeah, twice a week!)
That is why I sold my trusty old 1973 V8 Holden and purchased a 4 cylender buzzbox. Goes like the clappers though, technology has come a long way in the past 30 years. Should have bought one earlier. |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2003 : 16:04:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Snake: Here in the USA or at least in Los Angeles the emergency clinics are full, many times with people who don't need that kind of care. It can take hours to see a doctor.
It should be pointed out that many of these people are at the ER because they can't afford health insurance....
Or maybe because they are illegal and shouldn't be here in the 1st place! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2003 : 18:11:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake: Or maybe because they are illegal and shouldn't be here in the 1st place!
Oh, I forgot. Those people should be turned away. I always forget that. Wait long enough and we could just have the garbage men pick up the bodies. Free landfill.... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2003 : 01:43:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
I find the idea of calling anyone too poor to afford health care "illegal" to be outrageously offensive.
@tomic
@, up where you are I guess you don't see many Canadians rushing across the border for free health care and to make their children American citizens. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2003 : 01:53:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Snake: Or maybe because they are illegal and shouldn't be here in the 1st place!
Oh, I forgot. Those people should be turned away. I always forget that. Wait long enough and we could just have the garbage men pick up the bodies. Free landfill....
Yes of course they should be turned away. If you don't like the law, change it. Otherwise, they are illegal. I never thought of using bodies for land fills but hey, I'm open to new ideas.
I resent some people who come here, take advantage of services that we pay taxes for when others (like my room mate) come here legaly, wait over 3 years to get citizenship and have to go through a lot of shit to do it. He's never taken wellfare and worked 2, sometimes 3 jobs in the past to get what we have. He speaks English and has assimilated in to this culture and expects no one to accomadate him because he's from another country.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2003 : 09:38:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake:
Yes of course they should be turned away. If you don't like the law, change it. Otherwise, they are illegal.
No one should be turned away if they are in need of healthcare. There are just some things that are a matter of common decency. I'm sorry that concept eludes you. I'm sorry for you and those like you who have a complete lack of empathy for the plight of others. If I thought the way you do I would have trouble sleeping at night. Wait! Maybe not. If I thought the way you do I wouldn't have a social conscience so I guess I would sleep fine.
quote:
Snake: I resent some people who come here, take advantage of services that we pay taxes for when others (like my room mate) come here legaly, wait over 3 years to get citizenship and have to go through a lot of shit to do it. He's never taken wellfare and worked 2, sometimes 3 jobs in the past to get what we have.
Whatever. Tough life eh? I bet you think those guys standing on corners waiting for work are having it easy. Where are those good American citizens willing to do the grunt work waiting? I can't find them.
And by the way, the house you are building would probably have cost about 1/4 more if those people who are taking advantage of you weren't here. You get the money lost in taxes back that way, and then some.
It hurts to see a friend of mine spout cliches and bigotry. I'm sorry you are that way. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2003 : 00:21:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
No one should be turned away if they are in need of healthcare.
How ever did the USA become the baby-sitter to the world? Where are the governments of other countries? I'd like to know where all that foreign aid is going to.
quote:
There are just some things that are a matter of common decency.
Didn't you ever hear the story about teaching a man to fish? Hand outs are not the way to cure the troubles in society.
quote:
I bet you think those guys standing on corners waiting for work are having it easy. Where are those good American citizens willing to do the grunt work waiting? I can't find them.
As I said, if people (to make that clear, I mean AMERICANS on welfare) can get free money why work for it?
quote:
And by the way, the house you are building would probably have cost about 1/4 more if those people who are taking advantage of you weren't here. You get the money lost in taxes back that way, and then some.
Hum! I thought home builders were in the Mafia? (getting kickbacks, costing more money!)
I'll get back to you on that, as I'm almost ready to hire the contractor.
Another thought about costing more to build. Since the cost of the building is figured into the property tax that one will have to pay for the life of the property I wonder why the county doesn't stop the people you speak of as being cheap labor from bringing down the cost? You'd think the government would want to tax more if they could! (Maybe that has noting to do with the conversation, but just wondering.)
[quote]
It hurts to see a friend of mine spout cliches and bigotry. I'm sorry you are that way.
I'm happy to know you still count me as your friend and that we can have differences of opinion. I'm just tired of skimping and saving and going without, to be able to have something I want in life to show for my money only to have the government take it away. I believe it's a conspiracy to keep the little guy down. Damn capital gain tax! It's not the big corporations or millionaires who they are hurting with that tax. Likewise, where does it end, with giving and giving with no solution to the problem? Why can't the governments of the countries where these people come from provide for their needs? Take Mexico for example, it's not like everyone there is living off the land in a mud hut, they are educated people. How is it they can't help their own?
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Cold in here
New Member
Canada
48 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2003 : 10:37:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
it can take a long time to see a specialist doctor when you need one. You can't just walk in and say you want to see someone. Is that right? If that's the price you pay for getting free medical, I'm not sure it's worth that price (or the high taxes).
We have do have walk-in clinics, as well as doctors offices. To see any doctor you may visit a clinic anytime, though I don't know about the wait (i've never been to one  ). As for seeing your family doctor or a specialist on referral, you call ahead and book an appointment. Usually you can get an appointment presently and the wait isn't bad, 15 mins at my doctors office. I had troubles sleeping so I saw my doctor on a Thursday, he booked me to a Sleep Disorder Clinic for testing on Friday and I saw the Psychiatrist on Monday. Pretty prompt if you ask me. Hospitals are lousy though unless you have a REAL emergency, like a severed limb or such. But yes, definately worth the taxes, every penny and then some i'd say.
quote:
Yes of course they should be turned away. If you don't like the law, change it. Otherwise, they are illegal. I never thought of using bodies for land fills but hey, I'm open to new ideas.
I resent some people who come here, take advantage of services that we pay taxes for when others (like my room mate) come here legaly, wait over 3 years to get citizenship and have to go through a lot of shit to do it.
We certainly know all about people immigrating into Canada, we get all the 'trash'. We have more bloody refugees coming in than any other country I know of. But our health care is safe anyway until they become citizens, because you must present your Health Card before you can recieve treatment. |
Toronto is the capital of Canada, and I live in a giant igloo. Blubber anyone? |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2003 : 11:35:27 [Permalink]
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The problem isn't that Canadian or other health care is so bad. It's just that Americans are told, and want to believe desperately that their system is so good. What's funny is that while many Americans feel their system is so damn wonderful, if they actually get sick they find themselves denied what they need when they need it.
People in the US need to really think about the system and not just repeat the spin they hear because a lot of it is utter crap. Out medical system is "for profit" and the way you keep your profit is to deny health care to sick people. What is there not to get?
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2003 : 22:21:43 [Permalink]
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| Don't forget the post WWII's "GI Bill," we're are still enjoying the expansion it created. :] |
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