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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2003 : 13:44:33 [Permalink]
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Well, I might as well put my two bobs worth in as well....
quote:
I might as well weigh in on this since it's not going to go away.
First off, I have no problem with same sex marriages. In fact, I support the idea. I cannot see any logical reason to bar people who are in love to marry. Also, I think it's completely irrelevant why some people are gay and some are straight with regard to this issue. Gay people just are and it is unlikely that they will wake up one day and become straight. Same sex sexual orientation should not be a barrier to any rights at all. Gays should be free to make the same mistakes I have...
I agree with this, everyone deserves someone to love and cherish if they so wish. The thought of getting close and cuddly with a man doesn't exactly do it for me, but if that is what blows wind up your skirt then so be it. One of my close friends who I played football with for over 10 years came out not long ago. I never even guessed he was gay, but now he is living with his partner, they have a mortgage and hope to adopt a child – that's another can of worms for a different thread. As he says to me, “If I could change the way I feel about this, don't you think I would have!” He lost a lot of friends over that simple action and has been told in no uncertain terms that maybe it is not such a good idea to come back to the footy club where he gave over 10 years of service. He is not “faggy”, I never saw him shirk an issue on the football field. Having one of your close mates come out does change your position on the issue, at first it is awkward, but they are emotionally no different a loving couple than Fiona and myself. They argue and bicker, they work as a team and yes, they partake in some “horizontal folk dancing” in the bedroom. Just because it is a same sex relationship, it doesn't mean they can't legally be considered a couple.
quote:
Regarding Slaters opinion, he has the right to have it. I think he is a bit wrong headed on this one but then I'm sure he thinks I am too. I have had extended visits to San Francisco and have lived in the Castro for a time. We have a very large gay community here too, in West Hollywood. I think these communities just add to the cultural diversity of both Los Angeles and San Francisco. I don't see the negative.
In some ways I am like Slater, we have this Gay Pride march in Melbourne every year and some of the people involved are over the top and take the pride thing way too far. It's not acceptable for a straight couple to prance around a bar in G-Strings, (although I might find it hard to turn away if Shania Twain and Kylie Minogue got busy – hypocritical huh, that's men for you, shallow as ever !!!). But I sure don't want to see a scantily clad Peter and Paul rubbing each other up on the dance floor…but as I said above, when it hits you a little closer to home, your perspective changes a lot. I wasn't going to lose a close friendship over the fact that my friend turned out to be gay. If anything it made my friend a better person, he doesn't abuse drugs any more and he treats alcohol with much more responsibility. Sometimes you hide your greatest fears behind a needle, bong or a bottle.
As a footnote, I find it odd that most men are turned on by two women having sex, but are repulsed by the though of two men doing the same.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2003 : 15:35:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
''I never saw him shirk an issueon the football field.''
''bong''
Sorry, off the subject.....
I don't listen to the news on US TV because 90% of the time they use slang words, mostly in polititcal topics, that I don't know or understand.
Trying to read posts from other countries with terms unfamiliar is just as difficult.
Please Gezzam, could you explain the two above. Just wondering.
Thank you very much. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2003 : 21:42:45 [Permalink]
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Kil wrote:quote:
Regarding Slaters opinion, he has the right to have it. I think he is a bit wrong headed on this one but then I'm sure he thinks I am too.
Just to add to this thought: one of the main reasons I posted to this thread was Slater's questioning of other people skepticism, when, to me, it appears that it is Slater who hasn't skeptically examined his own opinions. This line in particular:quote:
It's called deviant behavior because it deviates from normal sane behavior...
deserves much critical examination. What, precisely, is "normal sane behaviour"? Forget, for the moment, sexual orientation or anything like that, and simply define what "normal sane behaviour" is, or more specifically, define what "normal" is.
To quote Stockley in Serial, quoting Mr. Spock, "in the insane society, the sane man must appear insane." Who gets to decide what is "normal"? My gut feeling is that Slater is pretty sure of what "normal" means, but hasn't really thought it through. But that's just a guess.
Mind, I've got a hell of a lot of respect for Slater's opinions on many of the matters I've seen him discuss here. They seem very well-grounded in fact and logic. This one, however, doesn't fit that mold very well - yet. In the spirit of open-minded inquiry, I'm quite looking forward to Slater's detailed defense of his position. Although I don't think I'll ever find homosexuality "disgusting" (obviously an esthetic judgement which would be hard to sway), I don't have anything against learning that it is, in actuality, a mental illness which requires treatment.
Oh, and for Snake, here's shirk and bong (you'll be wanting to look at the second noun defintion on that one, scroll down).
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 07:46:58 [Permalink]
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Some people think being educated means that they know how to think.
[quoteMind, I've got a hell of a lot of respect for Slater's opinions on many of the matters I've seen him discuss here. They seem very well-grounded in fact and logic. This one, however, doesn't fit that mold very well - yet. In the spirit of open-minded inquiry, I'm quite looking forward to Slater's detailed defense of his position. Although I don't think I'll ever find homosexuality "disgusting" (obviously an esthetic judgement which would be hard to sway), I don't have anything against learning that it is, in actuality, a mental illness which requires treatment.
[/quote] |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 06/15/2003 07:47:36 |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 18:55:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
''I never saw him shirk an issueon the football field.''
''bong''
Sorry, off the subject.....
I don't listen to the news on US TV because 90% of the time they use slang words, mostly in polititcal topics, that I don't know or understand.
Trying to read posts from other countries with terms unfamiliar is just as difficult.
Please Gezzam, could you explain the two above. Just wondering.
Thank you very much.
"Shirk an issue", to not shirk an issue is to be brave (or stupid) on the football field. For example, hold your position when the ball is coming towards you knowing full well that you are about to be pole-axed (hit hard) by about 2 or three other fella's who want that ball just as much as you do.
"A bong" is a water pipe, used to smoke marijuana. |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
| Edited by - gezzam on 06/15/2003 18:56:51 |
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 07:30:39 [Permalink]
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Snake,
You don't know what a bong is?!? Were you alive during the 70's? :> You should check out http://www.bong.com/ You might like some of them, they can be works of art, even collectibles. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 20:34:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jmcginn
Snake,
You don't know what a bong is?!? Were you alive during the 70's? :> You should check out http://www.bong.com/ You might like some of them, they can be works of art, even collectibles.
No I didn't....you got a problem with that?!?
And I was even alive in the 60's too and am still trying to figure out some of the slang from that time as well.
Actually I do like to collect things, how did you know? And as a matter of fact I bought some cute tiny wood pipes several years ago in Thailand. Also have a sliver one that's very ornate. I myself work in ceramics so I could probably make one if I wanted.
Thank you for showing me that page. As I don't and never did smoke marijuana, I would only collect them and not use them. |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 21:39:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
I would only collect them and not use them.
Unfortunately, I can't say the same...... |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 23:09:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
quote:
I would only collect them and not use them.
Unfortunately, I can't say the same......
Great. Then you need to come to America and join the Libertarian party. we welcome people like you. |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2003 : 05:35:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
If Slater wants to spend his days being disgusted by reasonable behavior and glorifying insane behavior, then yes, that's his business. But don't tell me that it's a mindset that should be held up as a good example. (emphasis mine)
It hurts too see how the pc sheep have mutilated our society in the modern world. in the above quote, Gorgo appears to be saying that being homosexual is "reasonable behaviour" and conversely, that being straight is "insane behaviour".
Homosexuality is a disgusting practice, in fact, I find ALL anal sex disgusting! The simple fact that another person would wish to insert their penis into the EXIT (note exit, not entrance) of anothers digestive passageway is indicative of deviance.
Interestingly enough, if an adult male is attracted to young boys, is he;
a) a Homosexual (Sexual behaviour between persons of the same sex)
b) a Paedophile (A person who is sexually attracted to children)
(both definitions from http://www.xrefer.com)
The difference between homosexuality and paedophilia is not as comfortably distinct as some of you pc sheep may wish to believe.
Slaters (and my own) opinions are as valid as any others on these boards, wasting four pages of this thread berating Slater is both unfair and deeply unsceptical.
By the way, it is reasonable for all to conclude that I am against same sex marriages.
As for the point briefly raised by Gezzam "One of my close friends..came out not long ago..and hope to adopt a child." really puts the willies up me!! |
"Frazier is so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wild Life."
"I am America. I am the part you won't recognize, but get used to me. Black, confident, cocky. My name, not yours. My religion, not yours. My goals, my own. Get used to me."
"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth."
---- Muhammad Ali
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2003 : 06:01:31 [Permalink]
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Actually I was not calling any sexual behavior insane, I was calling some of the other things Slater agrees with insane, like the U.S. attack on Iraq and the U.S. attack on South Vietnam.
If P.C. means being reasonable and polite, then yes, I'd like to be P.C.
If anti-P.C. means assuming that something is an illness because there there is no scientific basis to call something an "illness," then I don't want to be anti-P.C. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2003 : 06:27:59 [Permalink]
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I guess, Welshdean, since you're heterosexual that means you're screwing 6 year old girls?
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2003 : 07:08:58 [Permalink]
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Gorgo Posted - 06/17/2003 : 06:27:59
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I guess, Welshdean, since you're heterosexual that means you're screwing 6 year old girls?
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I knew it was coming!!
My point is, Gorgo, that the distinction between the two different types of sexual deviation is not unsubtle, distinction is only made by age.
For example, if a homo from Alabama picked up a 13 yr old lad from Burkina Faso would he be a homo or a paedophile. See http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm Put simply, paedophilia is a sub species of homosexuality, YOU CANNOT BUGGER A YOUNG LAD IF YOU AREN'T ATTRACTED TO PEOPLE OF THE SAME SEX. Hence ALL paedophiles that are interested in same sex sex, are by definition, also homo. |
"Frazier is so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wild Life."
"I am America. I am the part you won't recognize, but get used to me. Black, confident, cocky. My name, not yours. My religion, not yours. My goals, my own. Get used to me."
"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth."
---- Muhammad Ali
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2003 : 07:18:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by jmcginn
Snake,
You don't know what a bong is?!? Were you alive during the 70's? :> You should check out http://www.bong.com/ You might like some of them, they can be works of art, even collectibles.
No I didn't....you got a problem with that?!?
And I was even alive in the 60's too and am still trying to figure out some of the slang from that time as well.
Actually I do like to collect things, how did you know? And as a matter of fact I bought some cute tiny wood pipes several years ago in Thailand. Also have a sliver one that's very ornate. I myself work in ceramics so I could probably make one if I wanted.
Thank you for showing me that page. As I don't and never did smoke marijuana, I would only collect them and not use them.
Well every day is a great day for educating oneself! :> I thought I recalled from previous post that you were into ceramics in some sort of way. Your welcome for the page and yes I was only recommending they be collected not used  (although Gezzam has other ideas ). |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2003 : 08:00:39 [Permalink]
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The reason you knew it was coming was because you knew that what you are saying makes no sense. If a hetero from Alabama picked up a 13 yr old girl from somewhere I never heard of would he be a homo or a paedophile?
As a society we draw lines because we think children are not as well-equipped to deal with certain activities as adults. Whatever that line is has nothing to do with what consenting adults do. Your need to feel disgust about things has nothing to do with how other people run their lives fortunately. You evidently have this idea that your emotions change reality. It's your decision to be disgusted, deal with it, don't impose your irrational ideas on others.
quote:
For example, if a homo from Alabama picked up a 13 yr old lad from Burkina Faso would he be a homo or a paedophile. See http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm Put simply, paedophilia is a sub species of homosexuality, YOU CANNOT BUGGER A YOUNG LAD IF YOU AREN'T ATTRACTED TO PEOPLE OF THE SAME SEX. Hence ALL paedophiles that are interested in same sex sex, are by definition, also homo.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 06/17/2003 08:14:03 |
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