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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
 Posted - 10/29/2003 : 13:29:11 [Permalink]
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As much as I hate to agree with the jurk, creaton88, homosexuality is, in fact, a "wrong" thing.
A perfect example can be found in the Old Testament where, in fact, an early record of outlawing homosexuality can be found. The Jews had been moved from slavery to the Land of Milk and Honey where they conquered the land and had to occupy it. They were short of population and homosexuality does not produce babies. In the context of too few humans, homosexuality is not only wrong but is dangerous (unless, of course, you have "WMD" and, thus, don't have to rely on massed infantry or cavalry to secure an adequate defence).
On the other hand, homosexuality is a very useful survival mechanism for exactly the same reason, especially among highly sexually active species, such as primates (that is: humans). (For an alternative mechanism consider rabbits: Too many rabbits leads to a fox explosion and a dramatically reduced rabbit population.)
When the population size is greater than necessary (--and, most certainly, when the population size begins to strain resource availability--), an increase in homosexuality means fewer babies. Under these types of conditions, homosexuality drifts (in a sociological sense) from being a "wrong" thing to being a "right" thing. |
Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2003 : 19:38:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Computer Org
As much as I hate to agree with the jurk, creaton88, homosexuality is, in fact, a "wrong" thing.
A perfect example can be found in the Old Testament where, in fact, an early record of outlawing homosexuality can be found. The Jews had been moved from slavery to the Land of Milk and Honey where they conquered the land and had to occupy it.
OH Holly Shit! (sigh)
While I do blame the Jews for much of what's going on in the world today and much of the past Western history of wars and such, I have this theory that when they wanted the population to do something they'd use god as an excuse.
Like when the wise men among them (my theory) knew eating pork was unhealthy, rather than try to explain that people would get sick, it was easier to warn people by saying god will be angry if they do it.
Speed forward to present, minus a few years:
My x-sisters friend had parents who were in a concintration camp. Her father swore if he got out he'd devote his life to god/religion, so they were kosser.(spelling? but I mean very religios Jews) The friend herself was religious also but didn't see the need to believe in old 'rules', like when they wouldn't let her leave the house on a Friday night. I do think that's correct, the old rules were needed for those ancient times. Pork now is not as dangerous to eat and we know how to kill the germs that it has so there's no reason in todays world one shouldn't eat it if they want.
Likewise, for whatever reason they.....WAY BACK THEN, thought homosexuality was wrong, no longer is valid. It's a bad hold over from an ancient myth.
Get over it people. No one is trying to make you like it or be one so if someone is a certain way, how is that hurting you?
Doesn't the bible also say, turn the other cheek? Or live and let live....or something like that?
MYOB.
The bible is a book. How someone chooses to run his life, guided by something so foolish and contradictory is a puzzle to me. |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2003 : 20:51:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Computer Org
As much as I hate to agree with the jurk, creaton88, homosexuality is, in fact, a "wrong" thing.
A perfect example can be found in the Old Testament where, in fact, an early record of outlawing homosexuality can be found. The Jews had been moved from slavery to the Land of Milk and Honey where they conquered the land and had to occupy it. They were short of population and homosexuality does not produce babies. In the context of too few humans, homosexuality is not only wrong but is dangerous (unless, of course, you have "WMD" and, thus, don't have to rely on massed infantry or cavalry to secure an adequate defence).
In which case, encouraging polygamy, especially by the biggest, toughest, soldiers, is even more effective at building up the military than prohibiting homosexuality. I do recall a bit 'o polygamy in the Bible.
quote:
On the other hand, homosexuality is a very useful survival mechanism for exactly the same reason, especially among highly sexually active species, such as primates (that is: humans). (For an alternative mechanism consider rabbits: Too many rabbits leads to a fox explosion and a dramatically reduced rabbit population.)
When the population size is greater than necessary (--and, most certainly, when the population size begins to strain resource availability--), an increase in homosexuality means fewer babies. Under these types of conditions, homosexuality drifts (in a sociological sense) from being a "wrong" thing to being a "right" thing.
Reduction in population growth usually occurs when the economic burden of having a child exceeds the economic benefit. It coincides with urbanization, industrialization, and restrictions on child labor.
TW |
- TW
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2003 : 21:15:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake:
While I do blame the Jews for much of what's going on in the world today and much of the past Western history of wars and such...
Would you care to elaborate on this comment? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2003 : 06:57:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Snake:
While I do blame the Jews for much of what's going on in the world today and much of the past Western history of wars and such...
Would you care to elaborate on this comment?
Given Snake's stance on prop 54, you need to ask? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2003 : 09:20:12 [Permalink]
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"The Jews" are to blame?
Ah. The scapegoating of The Other rears its ugly head.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2003 : 21:45:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Given Snake's stance on prop 54, you need to ask?
At least Kil had the curtesey to ask, this time.
As soon as I can put my thoughts together and have time I will post them. He might understand what I'm saying, more than Val. If though he doesn't agree.
Later,
nlm
Val, are you just trying to be nasty? Or don't you care to hear other opinions, or only with what you agree? |
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 01:31:16 [Permalink]
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| This can not be let go....What Snake said "While I do blame the Jews for much of what's going on in the world today....ect" Jews made a hell of an impact on the economic world, some of which you enjoy as an american. So shut the f#$k up until you have some evidence of what the Jews did............ |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 00:39:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fireballn
This can not be let go....What Snake said "While I do blame the Jews for much of what's going on in the world today....ect" Jews made a hell of an impact on the economic world, some of which you enjoy as an american. So shut the f#$k up until you have some evidence of what the Jews did............
Mr. Ball, do you mean 'shut the fuck up? Because, is that any way for a Canadian to talk? My mother was born in Canada and I don't think she would have been that impolite.
Next, since I once called my x-sister a cheap Jew and Kil got 'a little' miffed, actually I called her a cheap Jew Bitch, but I don't think it was the Bitch part that got him upset. In any case, let's not talk about Jews and financial matters, don't want to get anyone mad.
Now for my reply to the other post:
If there wasn't the Jews there wouldn't be xians and Muslims, and all the branches of that religion that caused all the holly wars and the smothering of scientific advancement during certain centuries, if not now too.
There wouldn't be that bible that so many people love to quote to justify their actions instead of thinking for themselves.
There wouldn't have been slavery in America, that ones for you, Val.
There wouldn't be people like Mother Theresa who is being praised as a saint instead of showing how she really tortured people by not giving them conception control.
All that and much more, all that happened because a group of people wanted to believe there was one god and from that a mentally disturbed Jew martyred himself or was martyred by others to become a revered figure.
Now, on to the world as we know it today....deeply religious terrorists wanting to blow up areas of the world and a president of a supposedly powerful country who thinks god is the answer.
Can anything be more absurd? Just because of a mystical image in someones mind!
Yes, I know there were others who believed in one god or if history were different and perhaps polytheists would have taken the same course the world might be the same too but it's the bible of the Jews that IS what so many are faithful to in todays world, that's why I think they started the worlds troubles as we know them today.
Ball and Val, have you thought of starting a club....a 12 step program for hysterical people. Of course I can't tell for sure your tone of voice but it does sound to me as though you are overly excited when you write. Take it easy, we are only exchanging views. 'K? (I have never, that I can think of, told anyone seriously to shut the f up, that's not really a way to discuss issues). We wouldn't want you to get HiBP! |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 07:47:21 [Permalink]
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Let me get this straight:
The Jews are responsible for the bad behavior of Christians.
The Jews are responsible for the bad behavior of Muslims.
The Jews are responsible for the bad behavior of Mother Theresa (this one was actually funny; sorry.)
The Jews are responsible for slavery.
And, of course, the Jews were probably responsible for Hitler, yes? After all, if they hadn't existed, Hitler wouldn't have risen to power.
Who, pray tell, is responsible for your bigotry, Snake? Because of course, it isn't YOU, right?
Renae, who is beyond tired of reading ignorance and bigoted bullshit on the Internet. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 09:03:29 [Permalink]
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I've got to agree with Snake on one point: telling people to shut the fuck up is no way to combat prejudice. If Snake wants to spew massive amounts of nonsense, it's really the best way to demonstrate to what level of ignorance Snake has risen. We can then discusss the facts that supposedly are used to reach such a position.
I, for one, would like to see the evidence that "a mentally disturbed Jew martyred himself or was martyred by others to become a revered figure," for just one example. If there was no such Jew, Snake's argument falls apart.
Of course, the argument is on unsolid ground, anyway, since the actions of one Jew, or a handful of Jews, do not necessarily reflect the attitudes of all Jews. Otherwise, we could generalize from just Snake's example to saying that all Californians wanted Prop 54 to pass, an absurd conclusion since it was decisively shot down.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 09:24:30 [Permalink]
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Please remember that Snake is not blaming every ill in the world on Jews, only saying that they have their part in some of the world's troubles by being a major monotheistic religion which sprouted other major religions. I'm not agreeing particularly with Snake's delivery of this idea, but some of the outrage expressed here might be a little overdone. The Jewish religion does have a large part of the responsibility for the continuance of the practice of putting myth above fact.
They are not however, the first to put myth above fact, nor are they the largest group. Nor are they by far the worst in promoting such terrors as theocracy. Snake could have easily used the term "people" instead of "Jews" and been just as right or wrong. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 09:49:32 [Permalink]
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Oh, please.
It matters little to me how logical or 'fact'-filled someone's arguments are if their underlying intent is prejudice and bigotry.
Google 'scapegoating.' Or maybe'Holocaust.' If you want facts, that is.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 09:51:32 [Permalink]
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Gorgo wrote:quote:
The Jewish religion does have a large part of the responsibility for the continuance of the practice of putting myth above fact.
It is at the word 'continuance' where I have problems. While the Jewish religion may have "sprouted" Fundamentalist Christianity (FC), Judaism has no obvious part in supporting or maintaining FC today. That people who practice FC keep quoting the Old Testament is not the fault of the Jews, or at least it's no more their fault than it is the fault of J.K. Rowling that people who pratice FC point to the Harry Potter books as one of the means by which Satan is corrupting our kids.quote:
Snake could have easily used the term "people" instead of "Jews" and been just as right or wrong.
No, by singling out a whole kind of people, Snake's argument became absurd. It's fairly obvious that the spin-off religions from Judaism were not accepted by the majority of Jews, so generalizing from the small start-up groups of Christianity and Islam to all ancient Jews is simply wrong. Blame, instead, the specific people who took the Jewish religion and twisted it for their own ends. Blame the Crusades and the Dark Ages on those in power at the time. Blame current religious politicking on the people who practice it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 12:25:21 [Permalink]
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| Well, yes, wars are about money and power and not religion. Judaism is a continuance of myth over reality, so I'm not sure where you think we disagree there. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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