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sarahbear
New Member
9 Posts |
 Posted - 07/23/2001 : 16:35:07
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Hi,
Please don't flame me, I was young and stupid--but from high school and college on, I was involved in this Goddess-based, nature worshipping and "magick" hoodoo for a number of years. (You'd be surprised how many are)
Then I grew up and I realized what a crock it all is! I am just wondering if there is anyone else out there with similiar opinions. Or who has even gone through the same experience.
Having been there,I am scratching my head at how many athiests laugh at the idea of God but make allowances for a system that worships Him/Her/They/It and nature itself.
Trust me, when someone feels a need to cross the line between mythology and reality ITS ALL THE SAME!
Neo-Paganism is a broad term that encompasses many groups. But the basic premise is the same: self-defined morality, no written rules, total vagueness on any generally accepted beliefs, except they believe in the Spirit World/Astral Plane, and the ability to influence events with "magick."
There are also no set standards to meet--like in mainstream religion where not anyone can just walk into Church and declare themselves a Priest.
I am sooo embarassed to admit that I used the term "Witch," but take refuge in the fact that many others use terms like this. You may have heard of the Wiccans, who also call themselves "Witches." This is a pretty popular modern religion now--Wicca.
Sadly many Wiccans still believe that it is based on ancient teachings when it is really the product of a 1950's mailman named Gardner who cashed in on people's need for alternative spirituality. Check out an article called "The Goddess and the Scholars"--it will come up in a search.
You also run into some buffoons who call themselves "magickians" and "wizards" (etc)Out of the literally hundreds of people I met who used these types of terms, about 3 were seriously trained and educated in their "magick."
The rest read a few too many books at Barnes and Nobles then assigned themselves lofty titles. It must be nice to feel you have that much influence in the Universe when your own life is less than fulfulling.
May I share a list of my observations that were gleaned from my experience. Not all may agree and it will piss Neo-Pagans off, but this what *I* learned after many years of being immersed in Neo-Paganism:
1) A politically-based movemant--quite feminist and "Green" ..and overall, extremely liberal. And extreme politics is often the underlying motivation.
2) The majority attracted to Neo-Paganism as a backlash against Christianity and/or the conventional culture around them.
3) Attractive to and open to a fringe element-- meaning not everyone is as innocent, positive and healing motivated as many Pagans tout themselves to be.
4) Superstitious, same New Age quackery applies
5) Heaviely commercialized. Generic Pagan authors like Crowley peddling to gullible people who are not questioning the "information." (Or at least trying to BALANCE the "information" with other sources)
6) DROVES of teenagers getting a charge out of their immature, rebellious years. (Some "adults" who never ended those years!)
7) If you study Paganism long enough--just read a few Pagan forums-you won't be able to escape the Pagan Pity Party as I call it. Someone needs to tell these people that the stake and bake days have been over for a few centuries.
Before anyone out there screams at my insensitivity---to talk with a group of Pagans you would think they have been the only group in history that has ever been persecuted. Or the only group out there that has had any form of trouble today.
Being Pagan, you can't escape some of this "witch burning" days melodrama. But some of this is loaded with a healthy dose of not having researched all the facts.
Instead, plenty of people I saw had a victim complex and got petty fuel from the never-ending stance of Christian=TOTALLY EVIL vs us the eternal victims.
Well I guess I am done! Sheesh, I am sure glad to share this among skeptics--I really needed to get it off my chest.
I have heard some skeptics say things like: "well Neo-Paganism would be a better way to run the government because its more open than Christianity."
Trust me, I'm no fan of Christianity or any form of religion really, but Neo-Pagans running government affairs...NOT!!!!!
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 17:00:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hi,
Please don't flame me, I was young and stupid--but from high school and college on, I was involved in this Goddess-based, nature worshipping and "magick".............
Trust me,I'm no fan of Christianity or any form of religion really, but Neo-Pagans running government affairs...NOT!!!!!
If by flame, you mean make fun of you, I don't see how an open minded person would do that. No one is born knowing everything. We learn as we go. If you still believed in that I don't think it would be wrong because YOU are the only one who can make a determination of what is right for you at the time. Some people need or want to belive in various ideas, if it helps them, then why not.
As for running govenment, if you mean in the USA, we are of the people by the people. Everyone from any thought system has a right to be heard. No one group can or should have only their views be acted on. Compromise and work together is how it's supposed to be. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 18:36:34 [Permalink]
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Hello sarahbear, welcome! I think you've hit the nail on the head about Wiccans and such. Until recently I worked with one (he was also a psychic, who went to fairs and stuff and charged people for readings). He's a real nice guy, and it was fun to debate with him about stuff. I may have even gotten through to him about a few topics, at least!
There are two things I like about pagans: They like to dance around naked, and the Wiccan creed(?) "An it harm none, do as you will" I can live with. 
Other than that, you're right. Wicca is a big scam, kinda like Scientology.
But I think everyone deep down (maybe not that deep) kinda likes the feeling of self-righteousness they get being a member of a minority, disparaged group (as long as there is no killing or maiming involved, of course!). Come on, admit it you atheists! I'm not the only one, right?! 
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Ma gavte la nata! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 18:44:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Come on, admit it you atheists! I'm not the only one, right?!
But how would WE know? Do you have a twin? |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 19:56:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Come on, admit it you atheists! I'm not the only one, right?!
Especially when I sleep in on Sundays.
Seriously, the only time I feel guilty is when I've hurt, offended, or otherwise annoyed someone else through thoughtlessness. I don't ascribe to the notion of "sin" as written by a bunch of guys who look like they belong on a cigar box. 
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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sarahbear
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 20:44:18 [Permalink]
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Hey everyone, thanks for the really cool responses. Guess I learned to be a little gun-shy about getting people all worked up into a tizzy. I'm too used to all the Pagan forums!
Anyways yes the "harm none" creed--that is a nice goal. Too bad not all Neo-pagans apply that very general guideline in actual practice! Not all of them subsribe to it either.
Seriously if someone has goodness inside and is trying to grow as a person, who cares if they are Pagan, Christian, or what not.
Its just that ignorance really gets under my skin.
Speaking of your friend, I also worked as a Psychic very briefly I assure you! I honestly believed in what I was doing, but the fact was that I was surrounded by outright charlatons.
They were just in it for the money. The situation I was in was pretty much a pyramid scheme--I made little, but the bosses were driving BMW's.
As soon as someone cashes out that tells you something. I believe that everyone has some natural, human intuition, and can pick up on things--but especially con artists are good at reading people.
That John Edwards is one of them! Have you seen him interviewed when he was not all slicked up for his show? He comes across as any con artist ready to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.
Thanks again for offering some intelligent insights--what a relief!
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 20:54:34 [Permalink]
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That John Edwards is one of them! Have you seen him interviewed when he was not all slicked up for his show? He comes across as any con artist ready to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.
Exactly! Without the benefit of editing he doesn't seem like much at all(not that he does with editing).
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 20:56:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
But I think everyone deep down (maybe not that deep) kinda likes the feeling of self-righteousness they get being a member of a minority, disparaged group (as long as there is no killing or maiming involved, of course!). Come on, admit it you atheists! I'm not the only one, right?!
ah.....No, you are the only one. The rest of us much pefer to be thought well of. Poor guy.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 21:00:29 [Permalink]
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Welcome to the board, sarahbear. Thanks for your post.quote:
(TD) ... But I think everyone deep down (maybe not that deep) kinda likes the feeling of self-righteousness they get being a member of a minority, disparaged group. Come on, admit it you atheists! I'm not the only one, right?!
chuckle......Only thing is, Tokyo, that the atheists are not the minority here on this board!
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2001 : 23:33:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
That John Edwards is one of them! Have you seen him interviewed when he was not all slicked up for his show? He comes across as any con artist ready to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.
Exactly! Without the benefit of editing he doesn't seem like much at all(not that he does with editing).
@tomic
Who's John Edwards? |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2001 : 00:28:53 [Permalink]
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Quote:
Who's John Edwards?
I guess the rest of us watch too much TV. I've even seen him on the telly here in New Zealand. The program was about psychics and whether or not they really have any "powers". Edwards claims he can talk to the dead and to test this he did a reading to a group of people. What followed was the usual cold reading nonsense. As usual the people being read were the ones supplying all the answers.
At the end of the readings, something interesting happened, though. Edwards turned towards one of the cameramen and asked him if he wanted a message from his (the cameramans) dead father. Everyone was stunned. How could this possibly be explained? Edwards made a statement that was very true, and the cameraman was in tears.
As it turned out, it was anything but a supernatural happening. Unbeknownst (can you say that) to the TV crew, the cameraman had spoken to Edwards earlier and had mentioned that his father recently died. When confronted with this, Edwards just gave a "so what" kind of face.
Caught cheating on tape, but does anyone care? He's still making millions.
Up, up and away!!! |
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2001 : 02:05:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hi,
Please don't flame me, I was young and stupid--but from high school and college on, I was involved in this Goddess-based, nature worshipping and "magick" hoodoo for a number of years. (You'd be surprised how many are)
Then I grew up and I realized what a crock it all is!
Don't feel too badly, Sarahbear, I used to be a fundy. For real, a wacko bible thumper. In this group that is a little like confessing that you are Charles Manson's meaner brother. I studied rhetoric with the idea of learning how to refute all those smart-ass atheists. Instead, I learned to spot the fallacies and tricks in my own dogma. I went from there to critical thinking and reading the likes of James Randi and Joseph Campbell. It was all over after that.
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Antie
Skeptic Friend
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2001 : 04:46:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Come on, admit it you atheists! I'm not the only one, right?!
Nope. You're not the only one.
Religion is scary to me.
Ian Andreas Miller. My site. |
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Kristin
Skeptic Friend
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2001 : 05:16:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Other than that, you're right. Wicca is a big scam, kinda like
Scientology.
ooooooooo that's pretty low TD.. Wicca doesn't have subscription fees to reach 'levels' at least!
Dont feel bad, sb, I was on the wicca bandwagon for a short time myself.. the teenage alternate viewpoint had something to prove stage. (not that there's anything wrong with that) of course, I'm still a christian.. so. Deist might be a better definition. Anyways, something to think about :)
Good judgement comes from experience: experience comes from bad judgement. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2001 : 05:21:49 [Permalink]
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I know that I went looking for *religion* after I found that I couldn't stomach my own. However, during that search I found that there weren't any I could profess to believe without serious doubts. So I actually went back to catholicism before deciding to call myself a non-practicing catholic for a few years.
Eventually, I had to face facts and realize that if there is a god in this universe he's probably pretty much a non-entity. I eventually started calling myself an agnostic but atheist seems a better term for my continually evolving view of my life.
Most atheists/agnostics have been in some form of religion and eventually walked away from that religion. No biggie, bet most of us were where you were.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2001 : 08:48:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
ah.....No, you are the only one. The rest of us much pefer to be thought well of. Poor guy.
D'oh! 
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Ma gavte la nata! |
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