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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend
USA
63 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2003 : 09:41:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
The other problem concerns that with no arms or legs, the fetus would not have moved appreciably.
Why must you demand such gory detail to bolster your case?
You are wrong. The baby had no legs up to her hips, she had no hands up to her wrists, she had eyelids but no eyes, and since eyes are part of the brain, she had a compromised frontal lobe. She moved regularly. There was no additional investigation of possible internal deformities.
I really don't want to talk about these kinds of details any futher. Annie is my daughter. |
You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science. |
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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 10:38:23 [Permalink]
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Mr VD,
I have not called you any names. I have merely classified you and your positions based on what you have told me. You have not given me any “proof” that I have misclassified you in any way. Mere assertions to the contrary do not meet your “classic skeptic” test. |
You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science. |
| Edited by - chainsaw on 09/19/2003 13:19:47 |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 02:58:26 [Permalink]
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| I'm guessing you do not celebrate your birthday, but rather your conception day. I am pleased to see that you're against death penalty, though. :) |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Mahaad_Mana
New Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 22:14:16 [Permalink]
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| Ok, I don't really want to argue the abortion thing but I skimmed through the whole thing and I want to make a point it has become sort of like a religious debate on christianity in some areas. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2003 : 02:32:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Mahaad_Mana
Ok, I don't really want to argue the abortion thing but I skimmed through the whole thing and I want to make a point it has become sort of like a religious debate on christianity in some areas.
What did you expect? One of the sides in this debate is vehemently defended by religious people. They use the bible as if it was a document of absolute truth (which is absurd). |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 06:31:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chainsaw
SSI is not Medicare. I thought you said you were in healthcare?
SSI has their healthcare handled through Medicare. I now seriously doubt you were ever in healthcare. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 06:32:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chainsaw
How did you get so much information about my case that you can make such informed judgements and provide such detailed advice? I think you have just violated HIPAA.
Let me tell you this, the baby moved.
You claim the baby moved, but the baby lacks the mechanism to move. I now doubt the existance of the child in question. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 06:35:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chainsaw
Mr VD,
I have not called you any names. I have merely classified you and your positions based on what you have told me. You have not given me any “proof” that I have misclassified you in any way. Mere assertions to the contrary do not meet your “classic skeptic” test.
More namecalling. Ignored. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 06:48:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chainsaw
I've read that most Medicare receipients are extremely satisfied with their medical coverage. Can you tell me what percent of outpatient medications they pay for? Is it 100% or some other percent?
[answer: 0%]
You won't defend your position and instead change the subject to Medicare pharmaceutical coverage. (Which, by the way, is in the works.) Yet, you failed to include this in your hypothetical.
More non-susport for your position.
Feel free at any time to defend the position you have taken. You have yet to address the lack of support you have for your claims. I have provided sources for the claims I had. You seem to be focused on answers I gave to questions on what I would do. I also pointed out that the choices available were more than what you suggested. Yet you rail on and on and "classify" me as a Republican and intimate that I am a member of the religious right. This is not "classification" but rather namecalling. You instead chose to demonize me rather than defend your position.
Until you actually defend your position with more than just conjecture and namecalling, I will no longer be responding to your posts. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 14:11:43 [Permalink]
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You're still trying to justify public assistance as a third solution to make you comfortable with you principles, aren't you? However, you really cannot reason away the profound and serious implications for your proposed choice. You're really back to my two choices. The ones you have righteously insisted is a “false dichotomy”.
Your grasping at Medicare as the solution is laughable (again). You should know there is quite a bit more required here than just medical care. What do you mean you won't need drugs? No need for 24x7x365 caregivers? No need for specialized equipment? What about the specialized food, shelter, and all activities of daily living that will be required. It's not free, and it's not just there for you to pick up. You will have to struggle and fight your entire life for it. It will become your vocation.
I'm also surprised at your understanding of Medicare? I thought you said you were in healthcare? Yes, I understand the contractual adjustments. But things are much different in the shoes of a Medicare or Medicaid or SSI recipient. They don't cover everything. You thought otherwise?!? And in long term custotial care situations, coverage is even more limited. Didn't you know that doctors can refuse Medicare patients if they're not paid enought? And BTW, didn't Bush just announce a 4% physician cut for next year?
That you think this will be single lifetime inpatient episode shows just how far out of reality you are. Oops, didn't you know that Medicare cuts off inpatient reimbursements after a fixed number of days. And when a patient shows no progress funds are cut off immdediately regardless? Now, how are you going to show "medical progress"? Sounds like a government “Catch 22” to me. Just one of thousands of "Catch 22s" you will find in government entitlements.
Oops, didn't count on needing any special equipment did you. There's a whole different book on DME. I'll let you read the fine print yourself.
Oh BTW, where does long-term custodial care come from? Not from the feds. And if you go to the state in GA, your assets cannot exceed $2000. Oops, there goes the roof over your head, the clothes off you back, and that college fund for your other kids, well maybe they'll have to get a job.
If you think it's not a life of scrounging, pleading, pinching, sacrificing yourself, your family and everyone around you, you have your head buried in the sand. The emotional toll is high. The costs are staggering. And then you die. And what for? To satisfy some republican's principles who can't get enough grasp how the real world spins?!?!
Nope, you're back to space one friend. Retract your “False Dichotomy” accusation.
Now, if you do miracles, that's another thing.
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You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science. |
| Edited by - chainsaw on 09/22/2003 18:09:59 |
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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 15:06:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
You claim the baby moved, but the baby lacks the mechanism to move. I now doubt the existance of the child in question.
You will need a medical degree and OB specialization to understand that one.
Even experienced OBs are amazed at what they find at times. There is so much that can go wrong so easily it is amazing that new life is ever successful. I've learned that a simple virus could have been the cause of Annie's problems.
You need a lot of study. The March of Dimes may be a very good source of some information for you.
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You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science. |
| Edited by - chainsaw on 09/22/2003 15:14:33 |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2003 : 20:35:58 [Permalink]
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Renae:
It's been a while since I got on.
I thank you very much for your encouraging words. I can't tell you how much it means to me to have someone who disagrees with me, tell me something positive. Thank you very much. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Mahaad_Mana
New Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 01:10:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
What did you expect? One of the sides in this debate is vehemently defended by religious people. They use the bible as if it was a document of absolute truth (which is absurd).
(Hope the quote thing works)
Maybe that was the point was a trying to get across. It isn't meant to be a religious debate....well duh!
Besides, you have no proof God isn't real. :)
=>Science is Observation. Evolution cannot be proved becasue you cannot observe it<=
"Evolution cannot be proved or tested, it can only be believed." -Unknown |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 06:51:56 [Permalink]
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Mahaad_Mana wrote:quote:
"Evolution cannot be proved or tested, it can only be believed." -Unknown
The only place I find this sentence is in Evolution - Science or Religion, by Arlo Moehlenpah, which is based upon lies about evolution and the second law of thermodynamics, among others. As far as I am aware, the "Law of Biogenesis" and the "Law of Kinds" are inventions of the author, and not scientific laws at all (maybe centuries ago, they were, but they aren't now, so it's still a fabrication to imply that they are recognized scientific "laws"). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 07:08:13 [Permalink]
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Mahaad Mana,
quote:
=>Science is Observation. Evolution cannot be proved becasue you cannot observe it<=
"Evolution cannot be proved or tested, it can only be believed." -Unknown
Perhaps you should study up on science and how it works, there are two major types of science, direct experimental/observational and inferential. The majority of all modern science is now inferential, or in other words not direct observational. This includes medicine, biology, social sciences, and even the majority of what was once considered the "hard" sciences, physics and chemistry.
Furthermore nothing in science can be "proved". Science is not in the business of proving anything, that is in the realm of logic, philosophy, and mathematics.
Evolution like any other modern science is based upon a vast array of data and can be inferred thus it can be statistically tested. Just like the effects of a new drug can be inferred in a medical study and thus they can be statistically tested. The fact is most biological studies are more rigorous then any social science study where they usually only have an alpha of 0.05, while biology is generally 0.01 or even less.
So in summary Mahaad Mana, the majority of all modern sciences no longer relies on the direct observation methods and hasn't for a long time, this includes the science that forms the basis for most of all modern technology and medicine. Thus your statement "Science is Observation" is obviously false. |
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