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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2001 : 00:45:49 [Permalink]
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It's under "great debate". Piper named the folder so it's something silly like "minisucle anomolies found on apollo photos" or some such.
But here's a direct link http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=82431
"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots! And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're
spreading their stupidity! At least they were contained before--now they're on the loose everywhere!"? |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 08:44:32 [Permalink]
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Good Grief! The guy doesn't give up does he? How often does he show up over there? Loved some of the responses he got. I've noticed things are a little less, shall we say, restrained at the SD board.
Lisa
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steinhenge
Skeptic Friend
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 09:04:37 [Permalink]
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First off, I just love the SFN! I've lurked at the BABB for a while (and Phil, thank you for one of my favorite sites ever) and came here from there. Quality place, keep it up.
Secondly, I usually don't post at the BABB as I've nothing to contribute. Way too many knowledgable people there for me to feel like I can reply to nearly anything. Unfortunately, I have replied a few times to Piper (got that monkey off my back pretty quick) and just today to JW.
grrrrrrrrrr....
He pulled the old #6 on me (and no, not the one where we go a ridin' into town, a wompin' and a wompin'), the old "replying via email". I'd like to display his email and my replies to him here. Bear in mind this was regards to my music analogy that I laid on him at the BABB. Please pardon the length.
(his stuff in quotes)
"This guy's (Rosen) attitude (by analogy) is that if one can not read sheet music, one must never play any music of any kind."
My music analogy only goes so far. Music has many and varied styles, all of which are perfectly valid and ultimately come down to preference in the liking of. Music is a human invention. Math is not. You do an equation, you get a result. You conduct an experiment, you get a result. Sometimes the results are hard to grasp outside of the mathematical language, but the math and the facts remain.
From what I've seen, he thinks that someone proposing scientific theories that are intrinsically mathematical in nature (relativity of any sort, quantum mechanics) need to be well schooled in math.
"Faraday got along just fine without knowing any math, and I've never seen any evidence that Edison or the Wright brothers knew any math."
Faraday did nothing that needed math. His discoveries where experimental and observational in nature, not mathematical. Whether or not the Wright brothers knew much in the way of math, I can't say. However, the pursuit of flight in its basic form is highly intuitive in nature. If anywhere I had heard Rosen claim that "All discoveries scientific in nature can only be accomplished by skilled mathematicians" then this statement would have bearing. He hasn't, it doesn't.
"Rosen has consistently told me that since I'm not good in math, I shouldn't try to propose any ideas or theories about astronomy, physics, or other sciences, and he doesn't even want me to call attention to new theories proposed by people who are good in math, if he doesn't agree with or doesn't understand those theories. He's an elitist of the worst kind, trying to tell people what they are and are not allowed to discuss on science message boards. On another board he divided all people into two kinds: Formally educated and Informally educated. The Formally educated are the "high class" people and the Informally educated are the "peasants" of the world, no matter how intelligent they are."
Has he told you this in private? I ask because I've seen nothing of the like in any of his previous posts. Also, if you have any comments regarding any statements of his from any other source, I'd like for you to provide me a link to that source so that I can see just exactly what he has said. My impression of you after lurking the BABB for some time is that you are paranoid and irrational, and my experience with people who are paranoid and irrational suggests that they are also chronic liars. I do not say this as an attack or an insult, only to let you know that from your posting history on the BABB I would be afraid to be around you in public.
"There is an interesting story behind why he hates people who aren't good in math. On another board, I found out this guy was fired as a math professor from New Mexico State University at Las Cruses because several students complained about what a bad math professor he was. He blamed his firing on a conspiracy of "bad math students", and ever since then he's hated people who are not good in math but who try to discuss scientific subjects such as astr |
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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 11:48:55 [Permalink]
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Hi, Steinhenge, welcome to the SFN.
quote:
My question to you fine folk is: should I worry about being stalked by this lunatic?
I used to post semi-regularly on the BABB until I had the same concern about piper that you are examining about JW. I wrote private emails to Phil about that utter lunatic (piper) and how dangerous he acts, including the threatening and boastful language he uses. I think JW is another "on-the-edge" nutcase who is unraveling faster than a ball of waxed thread and is now screaming about censorship of ideas because Phil won't tolerate extreme rudeness on his board. His schtick is obviously political and may be based in anti-semitism (see an earlier post of mine above about another kook, Petr Beckmann, one of JW's favorites). So, knowledge of mathematics is probably Marxist, eh?
By the way, more on Beckmann: During a Google search, I found him extensively quoted on a Holocaust-is-a-myth site. Although the quotes were concerned with Galileo and Bruno, these quotes were used to justify this group's anger that Congress unanimously approved funding for the Holocaust museum several years ago.
Lunatic behavior seems to becoming the norm, rather than the exception in this world, unfortunately. And, yes, I would worry about being stalked, although I think Phil should be more worried. He's carrying the banner of reason through a crowd of deranged psychotics and one of them may decide to do more than flame others on his board.
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
Edited by - rubysue on 09/01/2001 11:54:30 |
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The Bad Astronomer
Skeptic Friend
137 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 15:26:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
And, yes, I would worry about being stalked, although I think Phil should be more worried.
That thought has crossed my mind. And I want to put up an extensive set of pages about creationism too. I have to think carefully about how to proceed.
*****
The Bad Astronomer
http://www.badastronomy.com
"With tremendous respect to [the] BA, the problem isn't getting scientists to talk, the problem can be getting them to shut up." |
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 15:40:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
That thought has crossed my mind. And I want to put up an extensive set of pages about creationism too. I have to think carefully about how to proceed.
Why don't you talk to the Talk Origins guys? I'm sure they've had LOTS of experience in that sort of thing, and I'm sure they'd be glad to help.
Oh, and I'm sorry I got JW rilled up AGAIN. Dammitt. I can't seem to stop toying with the guy :(
"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots! And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're
spreading their stupidity! At least they were contained before--now they're on the loose everywhere!"? |
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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 15:42:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
That thought has crossed my mind. And I want to put up an extensive set of pages about creationism too. I have to think carefully about how to proceed.
I think if I ran a website and board that explored controversial topics, I would make sure that I archived every single post, link and email message. I know this could end up using gigabytes of memory in a big fat hurry, so perhaps storing permanently on CD ROM or some other media would be a good idea. I would also let participants in my board know that this was a policy of the website.
I admire your tenacity and bravery, Phil, as I've stated before. I guess I'm a big, fat chicken, but human behavior seems to be getting more and more cranky and I would rather quit participating in these forums than risk enraging a twitchy loose cannon.
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 15:52:09 [Permalink]
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Anybody else getting annoyed with Jeffery Birks or is it just me?
I think JW doing a jekyl and hyde on me still has me rattled and in a bad mood...
"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots! And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're
spreading their stupidity! At least they were contained before--now they're on the loose everywhere!"? |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 17:05:50 [Permalink]
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Welcome aboard Steinhenge...good to see you here.
Rubysue suggested archiving all communiques on the webboard. I think that you (we) should consider doing the same for private emails from folks like Piper/JW. (I've been flying under JW's radar, since I will not respond to him.) If the tone of the emails escalates, we can always report him to the appropriate people (email administrators). There are rules regarding abusive communication, as well as net-stalking.
Crying wolf is one thing, but protecting ourselves from abuse is quite another.
Rift, as far as Jeffery Birks is concerned, he tripped my radar about a month ago...but I still can't tell if he's curious and willing to go down any ol' garden path or if he's got a deeper agenda. Or maybe I'm just paranoider than you.
"If in the last few years you haven't discarded a major opinion or acquired a new one, check your pulse. You may be dead." |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 20:19:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Rift, as far as Jeffery Birks is concerned, he tripped my radar about a month ago...but I still can't tell if he's curious and willing to go down any ol' garden path or if he's got a deeper agenda. Or maybe I'm just paranoider than you.
I'm a little leery of Jeff too. Sometimes I think he's sort of a borderline HBer. As soon as explanations get the least bit complicated, he runs back to the HB camp. That's common to the HB type. If something is incomprehensible to them, the hoax of the day must be correct.
As far as JW is concerned, I've put him in the same category as Piper: I don't even open the post. Read one, read'em all.
Lisa
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Dog_Ed
Skeptic Friend
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 22:15:49 [Permalink]
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Rift: "Anybody else getting annoyed with Jeffery Birks or is it just me?"
I dunno, he defended Zecharia Sitchin but he did it politely and didn't follow up when I clarified my position (Sitchin does bad science and is a conscious fraud, or delusional, or maybe both).
Personally, I don't worry much about threats from JW, and only a little about Piper. I'd bet neither one could set up an email bomb or a denial-of-service attack, let alone hack into a secured server--not much threat electronically. I don't think they're likely to take physical action, either, because they live behind their keyboards and that's their world. (Sure am glad none of us are like that, eh?)
I could be greatly mistaken, of course. You guys have more experience of them than I.
[Afterthought, especially for the BA: Of course, Piper or his loony cohorts might know people who could do some hacking and would do it. I hadn't thought of that when I posted this.]
"Even Einstein put his foot in it sometimes"
Edited by - Dog_Ed on 09/01/2001 23:26:28 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2001 : 22:19:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Rift:
I've sworn myself never to respond to JW again, and I ask you guys to monitor me.
Zanderman:
Rift, just walk away. You're more capable than he when it comes to letting some crank get the last word.:)
=======
Yes. Of course you can do what you think is best, but my friendly advice is, just because JW is blabbing about or attacking some aspect of SR or SR related topic that is actually interesting, remember that it is interesting onto itself, not because JW is writing about it.
Start another thread. Approach it from another direction. Of course he'll jump in (i.e. "on") you, me, anyone who posts, and others will answer him. But my advice is, if the topic is interesting enough, reply to others but ignore him. This may sound mean to folks who have only read his calmer posts, but he's really quite sinister, and will eventually attack those who are nice to him now. Then he'll whine as if he's the victim of a conspiracy if challenged. (In my opinion.)
I too have been tempted to answer his asinine replies, but people are smart, and someone else usually does. If a few of us kept answering him alone, it would become a one sided fight again. So I ignore JW in so far as replies go.
The Internet is like a big city. There are good areas (of "town") and bad. JW is a rotten neighborhood with ulterior nasty motives masquerading as "Science bookstores." Be the "wind" that blows old newspapers down the empty "JW gutter" at night -- and blows the gutter, clean. (-;
Chip
"I'd never join an organization that would have a man like me as a member." |
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steinhenge
Skeptic Friend
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2001 : 00:48:19 [Permalink]
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Ruby, Zander: Thanks for the warm welcome. I knew this was a keen place, it smells like bacon!
Z: regarding archiving, I always keep questionable mail. You're right, a very good idea to keep a reportable record of this stuff.
Dog: "Personally, I don't worry much about threats from JW, and only a little about Piper."
If there's one thing I've learned from crazy people in non-board life, it's that in addition to them being liars (as I pointed out to JW) they are often surprisingly prone to violence. That gives me an idea for a new FOX show: When Cranks Attack! Actually, this may be covered by "The Territory" on PBS (just a joke, I actually like that show... sometimes).
"I'll pull more than yer finger, buster." |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2001 : 16:38:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Anybody else getting annoyed with Jeffery Birks or is it just me?
I think JW doing a jekyl and hyde on me still has me rattled and in a bad mood...
"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots! And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're
spreading their stupidity! At least they were contained before--now they're on the loose everywhere!"?
Hey Rift, just read your apology to BA and JW and JW's flame. What is his problem?
Anyway, I thought you were being reasonable.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2001 : 22:20:11 [Permalink]
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I have no idea what JW's problem is...
He has a lot of nerve saying "Stop these personal attacks on me" after some of the stuff he has said in the past.
"Mom, make them stop"
His reaction to that damn Salon Article would be funny if it wasn't so scary.
"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots! And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're
spreading their stupidity! At least they were contained before--now they're on the loose everywhere!"? |
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