|
|
|
ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2004 : 19:11:04
|
I remember first hearing the "UNDER GOD" in the Pledge of Allegiance. I was saying "indivisible" and nearly choked when everybody else was chanting "UNDER GOD". I had do use self control to avoid a horse laugh (thinking about all of the silly little people who simply had to force "UNDER GOD" into the Pledge of Allegiance).
Of course, anyone can remain silent during the "UNDER GOD" section; anyone can say "indivisible" instead. Anyone can cough, clear his/her throat, laugh, giggle, blow his/her nose (into a handkerchief, of course) at that instant and then go on with the "pledge" without having to say "under God" even once. Then again, anyone can simply stand there during the entire "Pledge" without saying anything.
Another idea would be to memorize the Pledge of Allegiance BACKWARDS and confound everybody.
Of course, you can avoid all of those instances when one might become a member of an audience where the pledge might be forced on you.
And, of course, you can get up and walk out at the "under God" part.
Perhaps the best thing to do is avoid all meetings, etc., where the Pledge of Allegiance might be required.
How about you?
  
|
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
Edited by - ljbrs on 03/12/2004 19:16:17
|
|
|
Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2004 : 19:30:02 [Permalink]
|
When that Under god part comes around, I usually say Underdog, as in the cartoon character; "One Nation, Underdog".
Maybe someday we can scour out all these governmentally "forced" religious symbols in our national pledge, from our monies, etc. At least it's in the press from time to time.
Supreme Court case is next May, I think, filed by the brave California Atheist dad to rid the pledge of the fantasy space pixy thing.
Imagine if they ruled the Under god part IS unconstitutional, which I'm not counting on them to do. The fundies would go nuts. |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
 |
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 00:12:05 [Permalink]
|
| Since Bush's attack on the world, I don't much care for the rest of the pledge either. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 02:10:28 [Permalink]
|
Well, I may not be a big fan of the administration, but that doesn't change the way I feel about my home. However, I've made the 'Pledge' on several occaissions, and don't really see the reason I'm supposed to keep on saying it. I mean, last time I checked I hadn't turned into a Bulgarian or a Norwegian, an Ethiopian or any other nation's citizen. I'm still an American that made a pledge in my past that I don't intend on crawfishin' back out of any time soon.
Persnickety...Ain't I.
Now, to the point of this thread, When I was under the age of twelve I said the words "under God." After the age of twelve, (I think that's about the right time), I stopped saying the words. Needless to say, living in the Deep South that bought me a few problems. Believe it or not, some of the other kids called me a Jew--Me, a big, blond haired protestant type! That was most distressing. Then again, I actually enjoyed a good fight back in the good ole days.
Anyway, to make a long, rambling and senseless story short, I don't say any of the words any longer. I just stand there like a big idiot. I already pledged my loyalty, and if my word wasn't good enough then, it probably isn't now. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 03:36:25 [Permalink]
|
My patriotic dues were paid in full some 30 + years ago, and while I'm still willing to fight for my country, I don't feel that I have to put up with religious bullshit. Upon those rare accasions when I'm called upon to state the plegde, I use 'indivisable', as I did as a child.
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 05:23:10 [Permalink]
|
I don't see the point of being allegiant to a piece of cloth or the terrorist republic for which it stands or the fairy tale creature that sits over top of it. Why not be loyal to reasonable concepts like peace, justice and some reasonable measure of democracy and prosperity for everyone in the world?
The last couple of times I've been present with the pledge being recited like we were all members of some deranged cult I remained silent. In fact, I think I sat it out. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 05:32:30 [Permalink]
|
It isn't just this administration. They're all like that. quote:
Originally posted by Tim
Well, I may not be a big fan of the administration,
|
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 05:42:18 [Permalink]
|
Gorgo, I understand your feelings and sympathize. However, I would like to see my peers--my nation--stand up and promote those ideals you laud so well. It's not about a peice of cloth, or the current gov't. For me, it's about a feeling of right. It's about how I am represented to the world. It's about pride in my home and the integrity of myself, my family, my friends and all of those people that post to this board, (even the HooDoo people).
I want this country to represent those ideals, despite, or in spite of our current regime. I take pride in my home, just as I expect that Gezzam and Dr. Mabuse take pride in their respective homes.
But, I still don't understand why people have to congregate in groups and promise each other that they're going to be good little boys and girls. Afterall, isn't one promise enough?
You see Gorgo, you're right, they do often seem like "members of some derranged cult." |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 06:28:58 [Permalink]
|
Agreein' with Time, here.
If memory serves me (no gaurentees on that!), back in the '50s the Knights of Colunbus, a Catholic, faternal orgnization, got a sheepshank in their panties and promoted the 'under God' phrase. It got through a suck-up congress and was signed into law by an otherwise reasonable President Eisenhower.
The long and short of it is that I don't have to like it, but I don't have to say it, either, and don't.
Does this impune my patriotism? According to some it indeed does (Bush 41, for instance). And I don't have to listen those fools, either.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 10:45:21 [Permalink]
|
I refused to say the pledge when I got to High School. My homeroom teachers actually accepted my reasons and ask me if I could at least stand up. I did. Now, it wasn't the god part that had me not wanting to do say it. I really hadn't given god all that much thought up to that point. A war that I was against was raging. There were civil rights marches and violence in the streets. I just felt that I could not pledge allegiance to the symbol of all I felt was wrong at the time. I do not subscribe to the notion of "our country, right or wrong."
But there is this line "with liberty and justice for all." Of course, there wasn't liberty and justice for all back then and there still isn't. But I can support that sentiment and even pledge to help make it so. One way of looking at the pledge is not that we should fall lockstep behind whatever our country is doing at the time. It can also be a call to do whatever we can do to attain the sentiment expressed by the pledge.
If we see that the country is not living up to the ideal of the pledge, than it is our job to fix that. In fact, we have pledged to do so. That is how I explained the pledge to my son...
Of course, the god part has to go since it directly conflicts with the liberty and justice for all part... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 11:17:27 [Permalink]
|
Gorgo wrote:quote:
I don't see the point of being allegiant to a piece of cloth or the terrorist republic for which it stands or the fairy tale creature that sits over top of it. Why not be loyal to reasonable concepts like peace, justice and some reasonable measure of democracy and prosperity for everyone in the world?
I would think that only literalists believe they're actually pledging allegiance to the actual flag and government. For as long as I've been able to understand the pledge, I've taken it to be a pledge to attempt to live up to the ideals represented in the Constitution. In other words, what you said: there is no need to be allegiant to people who spit on the ideals of liberty, equality, and justice (the current or other administrations), and, thankfully, we can still use the law of the land to try to boot the bastards.
Of course, I can't remember having said the pledge in a group setting since first grade, which was long before I was ever able to understand what it meant. What the heck did "...for witches stand..." mean, anyway?
The way I interpret the words, I don't think I would have much of a problem reciting them now, even repeatedly, although I would definitely skip the "under God" part, as it conflicts with the rest of my interpretation.
And filthy, here's A Short History of the Pledge. Your memory served, although I recall from somewhere that the 1954 addition was made easier by the advent of McCarthy and the evil, ungodly commies. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 11:20:23 [Permalink]
|
| Way to go, Kil, stealing my thunder while I was typing away. |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 11:32:12 [Permalink]
|
quote:
What the heck did "...for witches stand..." mean, anyway?
And "one nation, invisible..." |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 19:13:11 [Permalink]
|
quote:
For as long as I've been able to understand the pledge, I've taken it to be a pledge to attempt to live up to the ideals represented in the Constitution.
The Bill of Rights of the "Constitution of the United States of America" begins: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....
I think that expecting everybody to state the "under God" portion of the "Pledge of Allegiance" goes against "Amendment 1" of the Constitution of the United States.
Then again, I studiously avoid being in any audience where the Pledge of Allegiance (and the Constitution of the United States) might be so abused.
I take the Constitution of the United States and its Bill of Rights very seriously. The men who wrote it were geniuses. The idiots who are making the silly changes are the disrespectful ones. Many of the founding fathers were "Deists" and would not have written a Pledge of Allegiance.
Oh well, I am seldom in a situation where the Pledge of Allegiance might be recited, so the topic is actually meaningless, as far as it might affect my own life.
ljbrs :( |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
|
|
|
ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 19:17:47 [Permalink]
|
Randy:
I very much like the "One Nation Under Dog" which you suggested. Great idea!
ljbrs :D |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
|
|
|
ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 19:20:49 [Permalink]
|
Folks:
Actually, I liked all of the responses. Good thinking!
I enjoy coming here (mostly to read all of your great ideas). Usually, I do not have much time to go to my computer, so I do what I can.
ljbrs :D |
"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve about these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds."
Giordano Bruno
(Burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church Inquisition in 1600) |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
