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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2004 : 17:51:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Check out this painting. Specifically, look at what's wading in the pond on the left, and flying in the air to the right.
Spot the tyrannical king and win a cookie.
According to the salespeople:Hot off the painter's canvas is the first ever 'authentic Noah's Ark' painting by artist, Elfred Lee. 4500 years ago Noah's ark carried its precious cargo to safety. Now the most accurate and beautiful depiction of that event ever painted is released, exclusively, through Bibleland Studios.
Ah, I see. Looks like a brachiosaurus (or similar) and pterodactyles. But you also see another anachronism, that is the guy wearing a shirt, carrying a book. I doubt those things existed 4500 years ago. But then again, this is a painting of a myth. They claim it to be accurate; how would they know...? They don't even know it didn't happen.
The guy carrying the book looks suspiciously like an accountant..... |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2004 : 23:29:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
The guy carrying the book looks suspiciously like an accountant.....
Well... as long as he's not a Jehova's Witness... :)
Perhaps the accountant is making sure Noah's not exceeding the budget or the timeframe. That project, especially if carried out 4500 years ago, would cost a lot. The costs to develop the new technology necessary must've been enormous. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Bibleland
Skeptic Friend
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 18:31:39 [Permalink]
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Dear Friends,
This is John Adolfi, President of Bibleland Studios. I want to thank you all for dropping in at the Studio and taking a look at our Noah's ark painting "The Invitation". Also for your constructive critiques such as one who pointed out the inconsistancies in the painting of the 2 species of Elephants found there. Our oversight, thanks.
However we did put forth much effort in the "accuracy" department like placing dinos and man together while blending design, color and content to bring home a message to our generation. To do this we needed to take artistic liberties at times. It was not easy. We believe that with Artist Elfred Lee's personal interviews with the 20th centuries Noah's Ark eyewitnesses, it gave us a decided advantage to depict the Ark's look as accurate as one can get this side of rediscovering it.
As to the identity of the "Mystery Objects" in the upper left background in the painting. For an explanation please see our paintings legend at http://www.biblelandstudios.com/legend.htm
Friends we invite you to come back as often as you like as we will strive to capture your interest with thought provoking articles, services and products.The Wonder of Reality. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 07:39:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
We believe that with Artist Elfred Lee's personal interviews with the 20th centuries Noah's Ark eyewitnesses, it gave us a decided advantage to depict the Ark's look as accurate as one can get this side of rediscovering it.
Hi, John. Welcome to the site.
I was wondering if you might be able to better explain what you mean about the modern-day "eyewitnesses" to the ark? |
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Bibleland
Skeptic Friend
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2004 : 11:10:32 [Permalink]
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Thank you Cuneiformist for the invite to reply. Well the 2 interviews mentioned were with George Hagopian in the early 70's and Ed Davis in 1986. George was a sheperd boy in 1908 when his Uncle took him to the Ark's location during a warm summer thaw. Since the Ark is under ice most all the time a "smooth summer" is necessary to see it. George spent a couple of days traveling to the site. When they reached it George was lifted up and walked on the top of the Ark. Then in 1910 he saw it again. Now for the rest of the story as told to me by Elfred Lee: As a young man George was drafted into the Army, went AWOL. Caught by the Russians and sent to Siberia. Released for good bahavior after 18 months. Came to America and hid from the Turks until his death. Was mum about his background except for one friend his realtor. She wrote Elfred Lee telling of George's Noah's Ark story and soon after Elfred began his extensive interviews.
Ed Davis was an engineer. In 1943 while doing some work at the base of Mount Ararat was led up to the Ark by the locals as a favor. He said it had broke in two and could see inside the interior which he described in detail.
These were the two eyewitnesses that Elfred Lee used in designing the Ark that is in our painting. He spent time drawing with the two men until they each said "stop that's it!". In our Gallery we have pictures of each man during this process. [The photos are here.] Thank you for taking the time to read and I look forward to any more comments or questions.
[Edited by Dave W. to turn the URL into a link, for ease of reading.] |
| Edited by - Bibleland on 07/14/2004 11:11:27 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2004 : 11:22:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
Thank you Cuneiformist for the invite to reply. Well the 2 interviews mentioned were with George Hagopian in the early 70's and Ed Davis in 1986. George was a sheperd boy in 1908 when his Uncle took him to the Ark's location during a warm summer thaw. Since the Ark is under ice most all the time a "smooth summer" is necessary to see it. George spent a couple of days traveling to the site. When they reached it George was lifted up and walked on the top of the Ark. Then in 1910 he saw it again. Now for the rest of the story as told to me by Elfred Lee: As a young man George was drafted into the Army, went AWOL. Caught by the Russians and sent to Siberia. Released for good bahavior after 18 months. Came to America and hid from the Turks until his death. Was mum about his background except for one friend his realtor. She wrote Elfred Lee telling of George's Noah's Ark story and soon after Elfred began his extensive interviews.
Ed Davis was an engineer. In 1943 while doing some work at the base of Mount Ararat was led up to the Ark by the locals as a favor. He said it had broke in two and could see inside the interior which he described in detail.
These were the two eyewitnesses that Elfred Lee used in designing the Ark that is in our painting. He spent time drawing with the two men until they each said "stop that's it!". In our Gallery we have pictures of each man during this process.[Changed link in quote again here - Dave W.] Thank you for taking the time to read and I look forward to any more comments or questions.
Might I ask when this painting was done?
Quite frankly, given the nature of human memmory and the decades of time between the contact with the alledged item and the descriptions given, I am skeptical of the veracity of the witnesses.
Hagopian gave his account 60 years after sighting. Davis gave his 40 years after sighting.
While a provocative piece and well done, judging it as "historically accurate" has some serious logical issues. As an inspirational piece based on the story of Noah in the Bible, I have no problem with. Representing it as "accurate" and suggesting that dinosaurs and humans cohabitated is not supported by the geologic record. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Bibleland
Skeptic Friend
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 09:39:58 [Permalink]
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You know after thinking about your remark regarding passing years and the ability to recall sightings, this came to mind. When I was a child I remember an old sewer tunnel we used to explore in and around in Cheektawaga, N.Y. The tunnel went underground several yards from the entrance that was above ground and exposed. The entrance was 10+ feet tall, rounded at the top and on the concrete exterior, it was covered in tar. As the tunnel bent to the right some 100 yards or so there was a hole in the ceiling that let light and air in and the exterior of the tunnel was level with the ground outside. I'm 43 and the last time I was at the tunnel was when I was 9 years old. I could discribe it further but I think you understand what I'm getting at. Try it your self and then try to imagine the object or place being really important.
I am not a scientist and yet in my studies I see that geology can be interpreted more than one way. I choose to understand the origin of man and the fossil record through the book of Genesis that being creation in 6 literal days. Therefore I believe man and dinosaur did coexsist. That the fossil record is the result of a world wide flood. That Genesis is the most reliable historical record available. Our feeble attempt to record this actual event that affected all of mankind is just that feeble. I believe that the closest we can get to reconstructing our ancient past is found in all our books that we sell except one. We gave an honest college try with the painting which was published in 2004. Thank you for your kind comments regarding it. |
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PolarBear
New Member
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 09:51:07 [Permalink]
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| Notice the nice shirt the accountant is wearing? The creases in the back? Hmmm... I didn't know business-style dress shirts were in fasion back then... |
Not only does god play dice, but they are loaded, can change shape and location, and can borrow energy as long as the universe at large fails to notice. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 10:39:28 [Permalink]
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Hi Bibleland and welcome!
As I've mentioned in a previous post, I really like the painting. Would it be possible to get a print (atheist I might be, but I know what I like)?
we are all, I'm sure, looking forward to some interesting discussions with you.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 10:54:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bibleland
You know after thinking about your remark regarding passing years and the ability to recall sightings, this came to mind. When I was a child I remember an old sewer tunnel we used to explore in and around in Cheektawaga, N.Y. The tunnel went underground several yards from the entrance that was above ground and exposed. The entrance was 10+ feet tall, rounded at the top and on the concrete exterior, it was covered in tar. As the tunnel bent to the right some 100 yards or so there was a hole in the ceiling that let light and air in and the exterior of the tunnel was level with the ground outside. I'm 43 and the last time I was at the tunnel was when I was 9 years old. I could discribe it further but I think you understand what I'm getting at. Try it your self and then try to imagine the object or place being really important.
I am not a scientist and yet in my studies I see that geology can be interpreted more than one way. I choose to understand the origin of man and the fossil record through the book of Genesis that being creation in 6 literal days. Therefore I believe man and dinosaur did coexsist. That the fossil record is the result of a world wide flood. That Genesis is the most reliable historical record available. Our feeble attempt to record this actual event that affected all of mankind is just that feeble. I believe that the closest we can get to reconstructing our ancient past is found in all our books that we sell except one. We gave an honest college try with the painting which was published in 2004. Thank you for your kind comments regarding it.
Here's the problem. The time when you were 9 was with a site that you had explored multiple times, did you not? As repetativeness breeds a more lasting image, the account you give of the two peoples experiences was of limited contact (once or twice) over a long time ago. Although, I can remeber my Junior High School gym quite well (being there for one hour per day for in excess of 200 days), when I went back twenty years later for a pancake breakfast, I noted that it seemed much smaller than I remebered it and some details I had misremembered. (Seeing them again, reminded me of what they originally looked like.) In another instance, I was in the scoreboard of Wrigley Field once when I was about 7. It was an important time as the WGN News crew was filming it. I'm 36 now, and there are quite a few parts of the inside of the scoreboard which are fuzzy and indistinct. Some major structural pieces are unclear such as I remember the numbers being stacked on end but don't remember clearly if there was any structure to hold them in straight lines.
I acknowledge that you are a Young Earth Creationist. I do not ascribe to this particular belief due to the lack of physical evidence for it and lack of support for it in the Bible. The main problem that I have with the idea of Young Earth Creationism is the indeterminate amount of time in between the creation of the world and the creation of man. (Genesis assumes the Earth was pre-existant to light) Also, God says that a thousand years would be as one day to Him in the Bible. A thousand years, I believe, is a vast amount of time to an ancient people. It could be millions or billions of years, but these would be concepts that ancient people would find alien and without an understandable meaning of scope. Much like the idea of one trillion dollars is completely foreign to us.
As an inspirational painting, It is nice and serves the purpose of showing the Biblical story of Noah quite well. As a historically accurate painting, I would have to say it has severe problems.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 11:03:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Hi Bibleland and welcome!
As I've mentioned in a previous post, I really like the painting. Would it be possible to get a print (atheist I might be, but I know what I like)?
we are all, I'm sure, looking forward to some interesting discussions with you.
Hey, filth, I was poking around their site and cam across this page where you can order one.
https://www.lnfbooks.com/~bls/catalog/
A 17" x 34" (.5 m x 1 m approx) on paper is 135 USD
A 17" x 34" (.5 m x 1 m approx) on canvas is 325 USD
A 20" x 40" (.66 m x 1.33 m approx) on canvas is 750 USD
A 30" x 60" (1 m x 2 m approx) on canvas is 1495 USD
and a 48" x 96" (1.5 m x 3 m approx) on canvas is 3200 USD.
A more direct link is below.
https://www.lnfbooks.com/~bls/catalog/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=d6ba66c3d930f6ef8b561eed45f385cc |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 11:04:32 [Permalink]
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Bibleland wrote:quote:
...I'm 43 and the last time I was at the tunnel was when I was 9 years old. I could discribe it further but I think you understand what I'm getting at.
Yes, and I could describe many memories of mine from 34 years ago, but without going back and looking at those old places and items, I cannot be sure that my memories are accurate. Many studies of memory in the last ten years have proven that the brain does not work like an organic VHS recorder, but instead show that memory is very malleable, indeed, and also subject to perception. What may have seemed to be a ten-foot tunnel when you were nine may really be only seven feet. The bend in the tunnel may really be 200 yards from the entrance, instead of 100 yards. Unless you, at nine, actually took measurements and are remembering those, your perceptions of distance and size after 34 years are suspect.quote:
I am not a scientist and yet in my studies I see that geology can be interpreted more than one way.
Sure, and the English language can be interpreted more than one way, as well. I can interpret your sentence, quoted above, to read "I am going to donate $10,000 to the Skeptic Friends Network" if I so choose. In other words, does your different interpretation of geology agree with any other facts? Because the standard interpretation of geology agrees with many other scientific disciplines, even those using completely different assumptions but reaching the same conclusions.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 12:38:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
...I see that geology can be interpreted more than one way
And none of those ways include any support for YEC.
SUrely, if dinosaur and man had ever coexisted, we'd have some historical record? Something in the myth and legends of many cultures. With the size of dinosaurs, they'd have to figure prominently into alot of ancient stories.... Caine, Able, and Dino their pet velociraptor....
YEC's, if I'm not mistaken, believe the world is 5-6k years old. We have plenty of history and legend that can be dated to 5000 years ago or more, and I'm not aware of any that include dinosaurs. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Bibleland
Skeptic Friend
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2004 : 06:08:14 [Permalink]
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Dear Friends,
Evolution lacks two of the most important elements in life we are all in need of. 1.) Love 2.) eternity Who here does not want or need love and who would like to end their life this very moment. In 1984 when in the Navy walking on the deck of the USS Alamo, an idea was pressed to my mind without prior contemplation "Is the Bible the inspired word of God and can be trusted?" At that moment I had to make a decission and it is either a yes or no proposition. If I said Yes I needed to read the Bible with an open mind and heart. If I answered No, all I could look forward to was hopelessness. I answered "yes" in good conscience and it changed my life.
Friends I know from past experience on this type of forum we can go back and forth on this stimulating topic. Therefore I give you all the final word and please visit us from time to time your're all invited. www.biblelandstudios.com |
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