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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2004 : 02:53:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by RightWingAtheist
Although I voted for and still support President Bush, I'm far less than thrilled with (read: very much opposed to) many his policies. However, I'm even less optomistic about Kerry's potential. As a retired member of the military, I'm disgusted by his post-Viet Nam activities. I'm also uninspired by his voting record on defense. As a Constitutional Republican, I'm even less inspired by his voting record as to the uniform protection of our rights. I'm also concerned about the direction his brand of internationalism would seem to take us.
Almost anywhere is better than where Bush has taken the country.
quote:
Police fired tear gas to disperse protesters, estimated between 2,000 and 6,000, who marched through downtown Athens, past luxury hotels housing Olympics VIPs, until being blocked by a cordon of helmeted police outside Parliament. They had hoped to reach the U.S. Embassy, less than a mile away.
The Greeks are protesting Powell? The fucking Greeks?! They who have been allies and friends for as long as I can remember? Whilst in the Navy, I visited Greece a number of times and found them to be some of the friendliest people in the world.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002018132_olyiraq28.html
That pile of dog's offal called the current administration has managed, in less than four years, to change this nation from internationally admired and respected to despised and feared. They have cost us dearly in prestiege. And due to the Iraq fuckup, among others, they are losing the so-called 'war on terror' for us. Rarely has there been such vicious incompetence in high office!
I remember ‘Nam all too well, but that's over. Finished, all done, we lost. Kerry's protesting at that time simply showed a man standing up for his principles. And who has more right to protest than someone who has been there? That gets more of my respect than loafing around in a gravy assignment in the Guard, and not even finishing that.
Kerry was not my first choice for a candidate; I liked Wes Clarke. But he's way better than the alternative.
Would that magic really worked and I were a wizard. I would toss some kind of foo-foo into the air, wave my dowsing stick, and shout, "Bush away!" and all would be made right.
But it doesn't work and I'd probably be a shitty wizard if it did, so all I can do is vote come November and hope Bush et al. gets marched out of the White House in restraints on his way to a war crimes trial before then.
Hard sayin's, but it's a tough old world.
But on a more positive note:
quote:
A Republican group has blamed pop rebel Britney Spears for "undermining the sexual morality" of American citizens after learning she has been approached to perform at this year's Republican National Convention.
The Chicago Sun-Times reports the singer has been asked to sing at George W Bush's political party bash at New York's Madison Square Garden next week, much to the disgust of Republican group the Illinois Family Institute.
American website The Scoop reports the institute emailed members, saying, "Through her immature antics, Spears has probably done more to undermine sexual morality than all the misguided legislation introduced in the United States over the last decade.
"It would be the height of hypocrisy for a party that claims to represent wholesome values to celebrate her."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/28/2004 04:04:42 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 07:39:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
"It would be the height of hypocrisy for a party that claims to represent wholesome values to celebrate her."
Ahhhh, this takes me back to when Reagan's interior secretary James Watt banned the Beach Boys from playing an Independence Day show in Washington. He said that rock bands attract the wrong element.
quote:
After Watt had ignited one too many controversies, Reagan showed him the door, aided by a none-too-gentle push from Nancy Reagan, for whom Watt's cancellation of a concert on the Mall for her favored Beach Boys was the last straw.
http://www.rep.org/opinions/op-eds/53.html
It seems to me that banning Spears makes more sense on a strictly musical basis. She is a giant yawn. But I digress. It makes me happy every time republicans even suggest banning a rock act. Some of their asses are so tight, I don't know how they shit in the morning.... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 07:52:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Some of their asses are so tight, I don't know how they shit in the morning....
I'll take a stab at it: Because they are so full of shit the pressure exceeds the tightness of their asses?
@ |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 08:25:37 [Permalink]
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Britney Spears, a barely-legal, barely-talented, MARRIED entertainer, now influences the sexual behavior of millions of people she's never met. Just thinking about her makes me want to go fornicate or shack up or have premarital sex! (not with her, though, 'cause I'm straight.) I'm glad to know I bear no responsibility for my "sexual morality"--whatever THAT is--it's all Britney's fault.
Pretend I inserted a LMAO icon here. 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 08:55:39 [Permalink]
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I think that it was the tongue-rasslin' lip-lock she shared with Madonna that put the knot in the Republican knickers. Me, I thought it was funny. Now if we could just get set up with a tub of mud... never mind. 
If I were doing the show for the convention, I'd probably not want her either. There's just too much talent around to choose from. I'd audition hell out of it; find a really good band(s) or even an individual(s) that no one ever heard of and let them "blow the room away."
Then, you have a real show!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/28/2004 08:57:04 |
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RightWingAtheist
New Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 11:46:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
For the first time in US history, right now, because of G.W. Bush, we can be secretly arrested and detained indefinitely on mere suspicion.
The exact language allowing such arrests would be...? Perhaps you're referring to one of these myths.
By the way, Kerry's own voting record indicates we also have him to thank for the Patriot Act. Is that another one of those things he was for before we has against it before he was...?
quote:
No sane person who wants to see rights and civil liberty protected will vote for Bush.
Argumentum ad Hominem ("poisoning the well" or prejudicial language). While it's not the point of this thread, if you wish to question my sanity or my commitment to our rights and liberties, I'd suggest having more evidence than a mere political or philosophical difference. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 14:26:45 [Permalink]
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A lot of crap was passed after 9-11 and if you voted against it you were accused of aiding the terrorists, and some people legitimately voted to give the Pres. as much authority as possible to get things back on track. A lot of time has passed and Bush's record of how he is dealing with the threat shows poor judgment in my opinion based on how things are going.
98 for, 1 against and 1 abstention hardly makes Kerry a Bush policy supporter who has now changed. It means the Senate voted to give the Pres what he asked for and have now evaluated how Bush used that authority, poorly.
If you have been influenced by the Republican sound bite talking points then you can cite such over simplified 'facts' as meaningful. It wouldn't be hard to do the same for, "I'm not going to send our troops out for nation building" Bush. Shall we dig a few more of those talking points up? |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 14:31:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Argumentum ad Hominem ("poisoning the well" or prejudicial language). While it's not the point of this thread, if you wish to question my sanity or my commitment to our rights and liberties, I'd suggest having more evidence than a mere political or philosophical difference.
Ad Hominem? What? Ad Hominem take on this form:
Person X is _______ (asshole, stupid, no PhD.), therefore his claim Y is wrong
Since he is not attacking any claim, there can be no Ad Hominem. In fact, you can only committe any logic fallacy when you are trying to show a claim is wrong. So if there is no claim, there can be no logic fallacy.
This is however, a personal attack. But, when voting for someone, personal attacks are needed, as it is the person who you are voting for. |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 17:23:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
The exact language allowing such arrests would be...? Perhaps you're referring to one of these myths.
And from your myth-page (written by Ashcroft's department btw)
quote:
Peaceful political discourse and dissent is one of America's most cherished freedoms, and is not subject to investigation as domestic terrorism.
So.... then you can explain why peacefull protest groups are being investigated by the FBI right now?
You go ahead and vote for the republican.
Tell me, do you ever tell anyone in the GOP that your an atheist? Does it bother you that your atheism would bar you from any appointed position within the current administration, no matter how low level, if it were publicly known? |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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RightWingAtheist
New Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 23:09:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
A lot of crap was passed after 9-11 and if you voted against it you were accused of aiding the terrorists...
Too bad. We're paying them to make the tough decisions.
quote:
98 for, 1 against and 1 abstention hardly makes Kerry a Bush policy supporter who has now changed.
I wasn't asserting that Kerry ever was a Bush policy supporter. I was responding to Dude's assertion that we have the PA because of GWB. Clearly, we have it because of GWB and Congress.
quote:
If you have been influenced by the Republican sound bite talking points then you can cite such over simplified 'facts' as meaningful.
Since many of my views make me an atypical Repulican, I'd say I'm not overly influenced by sound bites. Some are meaningful. Some are not. Many are crap. This is unique to neither the Republican or Democratic parties.
Largley, my political opinions are based on my experiences of living with, or rather under, the results of voting records like Kerry's. I admit these experiences may tend to promote a tunnel vision of sorts but then, we all have our blind spots.
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Tell me, do you ever tell anyone in the GOP that your an atheist? Does it bother you that your atheism would bar you from any appointed position within the current administration, no matter how low level, if it were publicly known?
If by "in the GOP" you mean fellow Republicans then, yes, I have. No big deal. However, I'm not a mover or a shaker in the party so I can't say that I've told anyone more "in" than that. As far as being barred from an appointed position, I hadn't considered it personally since I have absolutely no aspirations for such a post. My low level, non-appointed government employment suits me fine. Can you provide examples of such happening? |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 22:03:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Can you provide examples of such happening?
Name ONE known atheist in the current administration. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 03:24:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Can you provide examples of such happening?
Name ONE known atheist in the current administration.
That's a thought I hadn't considered. Mulling it over, I can't think of any administration appointing or even hiring a known atheist.
Now I feel discriminated against. Somebody go sober up my laywer.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 03:52:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
It seems to me that banning Spears makes more sense on a strictly musical basis. She is a giant yawn.
But she looks good. What else do you need in a singer these days?
quote:
Some of their asses are so tight, I don't know how they shit in the morning....
By saying something? |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 06:24:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
quote:
Argumentum ad Hominem ("poisoning the well" or prejudicial language). While it's not the point of this thread, if you wish to question my sanity or my commitment to our rights and liberties, I'd suggest having more evidence than a mere political or philosophical difference.
Ad Hominem? What? Ad Hominem take on this form:
Person X is _______ (asshole, stupid, no PhD.), therefore his claim Y is wrong
Since he is not attacking any claim, there can be no Ad Hominem. In fact, you can only committe any logic fallacy when you are trying to show a claim is wrong. So if there is no claim, there can be no logic fallacy.
This is however, a personal attack. But, when voting for someone, personal attacks are needed, as it is the person who you are voting for.
"No sane person who wants to see rights and civil liberty protected will vote for Bush."
Herein lies the claim. While I do not agree with RWA about the Bush administration in general, he is quite right that a claim which attaches a level of goodness based on agreement or disagreement with a statement is logically invalid. It falls under Prejudical Language fallacy, not ad Hominem.
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/pl.htm
Also, RWA's agruements listing a source which claims that protesters are not being singled out is demonstrably false from the number and timber of compliants being voiced by Bush administration protesters of being visited by the FBI and questioned. Bush does not appear to be interested in freedom of speech because he sure is spending a lot of time quashing it. Ashcroft is fond of language saying that those that oppose his policies, aid terrorism. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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RightWingAtheist
New Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 11:16:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
It falls under Prejudical Language fallacy, not ad Hominem.
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/pl.htm
Thanks for the clarification. I referenced another source for the poisoning the well definition. Be that as it may, you're still correct. It's not, strictly speaking, an ad Hominem attack but rather, a logical booby trap...a pre-emptive ad Hominem, if you will. I stand corrected.
(posting likely to be haphazard and scatter-brained. Moving into a new house is a mind-numbing chore.) |
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