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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2004 : 13:07:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
quote:
Arnie as Prez? The mind boggles.
Hey, if Bush can win, anything is possible.
The only serious objects to this that I see in this post are:
quote:
The current set up had to do with charismatic individuals from foreign countries moving here to specifically run for President that may have foreign commitments instead of the US as sole commitment. It's a concern of 200+ years ago that still makes sense. I see no reason to change it.
Call me a xenophobe, but I cannot see where citizens of foreign nations can come to another nation and run it better.
and:
quote:
I think that the framers of the Constitution had good reason not to allow this. Cuneiformist has said it for me. There might be too much forign influcence placed upon our government. Yes, we have problems, but they're our problems.
But isn't that the whole idea behind America? A nation built by forigners of all different kinds? Is someone who was born here any more American than someone who wasn't but lived here for 10 years? In my mind, no. They are both Americans equally to me.
I think that you shouldn't have to be born here, but live here for 10 years (or some other number) before you can run for president.
Even with 10+ years, I'd have a problem with it. Foreign nationals exorably have ties to their homeland. They will have a natural tendency to want to help it. Even with a 14 year lag, it has the same issues for me.
I do see the points concerning children of immigrants who were very young when they became citizens as being a lesser threat. The society as a whole still considers immigrants as trainee citizens and their children born in country somehow less likely to be raised as agents of foreign powers. (See Manchurian Candidate and add natal ties)
Paluos23, foreign coutries that have lasted more than 35 years while being hostile towards the US.
China
Cuba
Vietnam
North Korea
While I can see Ricky's point about being American, there is a perception of a special bond between the country of your birth versus the country you emigrate to. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 11/10/2004 13:08:54 |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 13:22:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy
It's old news that Arnold Schwarzenegger would like to amend the Constitution so that he (and others born outside the United States) would be eligible to be President.
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/actors/arnold-schwarzenegger/
I'm curious as to how the people here would feel about such an Amendment, and why.
I think it wouldn't be a terrible idea not to discriminate between the citizens by giving them different rights. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 16:39:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Valiant Dancer:
Even with 10+ years, I'd have a problem with it. Foreign nationals exorably have ties to their homeland. They will have a natural tendency to want to help it. Even with a 14 year lag, it has the same issues for me.
Well, I dunno. John Kennedy was the first Catholic elected president. The reason it took so long is people were afraid a Catholic would reveal things in the confessional and also allow the Vatican to have influence on the president's decisions. I'm sure there are those who wouldn't want to elect a Jewish president because of a certain bias he/she might have. Yet a Jew or a Catholic born here can run. So, what's the difference? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 18:44:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
I would bet that if people who weren't born here ran for president, people would attack that and say that they aren't real Americans.
Don't laugh... Okay, laugh if you want to... but I actually believe Schwarzenegger is electable. PLEASE do not think that means I would vote for him. I do, however, believe many of my fellow Americans would. |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 19:18:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Wendy:
I actually believe Schwarzenegger is electable.
You're right... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 23:48:25 [Permalink]
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| Schwarzenegger. Not that that means much.... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 01:59:46 [Permalink]
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Electing a right wing Austrian immigrant to become Chief of State.
What could possibly go wrong?
Laywer: Well, what about that tatoo on your chest? Doesn't it say Die, Bart, Die?
Sideshow Bob: No, that's German for 'The Bart, The".
Parole Judge: No one who speaks German can be an evil man! Parole Granted!
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 06:13:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
If you had to choose Bush or Schwarzenegger, who would it be?
Schwarzenegger - and with Jeb Bush has his Vice-Presidential candidate, we wouldn't have to choose. We could have both! 
I've gotta get over Kerry losing the election. It's doing weird things to my head.
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 07:19:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Valiant Dancer:
Even with 10+ years, I'd have a problem with it. Foreign nationals exorably have ties to their homeland. They will have a natural tendency to want to help it. Even with a 14 year lag, it has the same issues for me.
Well, I dunno. John Kennedy was the first Catholic elected president. The reason it took so long is people were afraid a Catholic would reveal things in the confessional and also allow the Vatican to have influence on the president's decisions. I'm sure there are those who wouldn't want to elect a Jewish president because of a certain bias he/she might have. Yet a Jew or a Catholic born here can run. So, what's the difference?
Societal vs religious bias.
I think the framers had to go overboard on defining the natal requirement of President due to the concern of adults emigrating to America and trying to shape it in the image of the country they came from.
In the future, there may be a time that foreign born people will be able to run for President. I just don't think now is the time. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 09:21:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Starman:
Electing a right wing Austrian immigrant to become Chief of State. What could possibly go wrong?
Arnold is very much a centrist. In fact, if you removed his fiscal policies, which may be standard republican fare, but not always as he showed with his support of California spending billions to fund stem cell research and other odds and ends, you get a left of center Arnold on such issues as Gay marriages, and general lack of support for issues that make the RR happy. He has even been supportive of environmental concerns. To describe him as right wing would make the right wing cringe. They already are cringing.
I have to tell you, that while I didn't vote for Arnold because I didn't like the way that whole thing went down, plus he is republican and we were trying to save a democratic administration, Arnold has been better for our state than Davis was. Doesn't mean I will vote for him next time, but I am fairly impressed at his ability to compromise with our democratic assembly and congress. And make them compromise…
If he ever gets to run for president, he would bring a lot of crossover votes with him. Something neither Bush nor Kerry could manage. He could win. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 10:14:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Starman:
Electing a right wing Austrian immigrant to become Chief of State. What could possibly go wrong?
Arnold is very much a centrist. In fact, if you removed his fiscal policies, which may be standard republican fare, but not always as he showed with his support of California spending billions to fund stem cell research and other odds and ends, you get a left of center Arnold on such issues as Gay marriages, and general lack of support for issues that make the RR happy. He has even been supportive of environmental concerns. To describe him as right wing would make the right wing cringe. They already are cringing.
I have to tell you, that while I didn't vote for Arnold because I didn't like the way that whole thing went down, plus he is republican and we were trying to save a democratic administration, Arnold has been better for our state than Davis was. Doesn't mean I will vote for him next time, but I am fairly impressed at his ability to compromise with our democratic assembly and congress. And make them compromise…
If he ever gets to run for president, he would bring a lot of crossover votes with him. Something neither Bush nor Kerry could manage. He could win.
I think that his centrist position comes partially from being married to a Kennedy. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 10:25:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I think that his centrist position comes partially from being married to a Kennedy.
Perhaps, but my impression is that Maria's role is more that of political capital than political influence. |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2004 : 06:41:53 [Permalink]
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I don't think we have to worry about Arnie, I would imagine that the republicans are already moving to over turn the 22nd amendment to the constitution so that we can have Bush in there for life.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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