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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
 Posted - 12/06/2004 : 18:54:32
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I've never been a Santa fan, ever since I was a kid, being the young skeptic that I was. When I came to see through the whole charade, I came to suspect that my parents were lying about much more than a fat guy in a red suit, and made it my mission to reveal this untruth the the whole neighborhood. 
Through the years, I simply can not fathom the importance adults attach to whether or not their children believe in Santa, becoming distraught when their youngsters faith in old St. Nick is shaken. If I were a parent, I'd much rather see my children develop critical thinking skills than lead them to believe such utter BS. Why do we do this? Is it perhaps a manifestation of the innocence fetish that we seem to have when it comes to all things juvenile? Or is a more sinister, if unstated, motive at play? If we condition our kids to be credulous through Santa and the Tooth Fairy, perhaps they'll buy into other lies as we make "good citizens" of them by indoctinating them into the ways of religiosity, consumerism and patriotism. Of course, when I say that, I have to laugh at myself, as I come off sounding like the socio-babblers that I'm apt to dismiss, who see nefarious (e.g., sexist, racist) motives or even conspiracies behind every tradition and social practice. What do you folks think?
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"The amount of noise which anyone can bear stands in inverse proportion to his mental capacity." --Schopenhauer |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 19:24:32 [Permalink]
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Actually, I think of figuring out that Santa doesn't exist as a sort of rite of passage which teaches critical thinking. I mean, kids are supposed to catch on that there is no fat guy in a red suit. I remember receiving an almost conspiratorial wink when I spilled the beans to my mother that I knew it was she and Dad delivering the presents I unwrapped. It was like I was one step closer to adulthood that night...I was in on the joke. More importantly, I figured it out myself.
It was an important lesson in how one can deduce truth through the exercising of one's reason. (Even if I didn't think about in exactly those terms back then.)
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/06/2004 19:25:44 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 20:20:41 [Permalink]
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| I have been straight forward to my children about Santa. While although the supernatural of Santa does not exist the man Kris Kringle once dis and so did St. Nicklaus. Bioth were those who gave, Shristmas is a time of giving. In Pagan times is was called yule. It was return of the light and hence the return of the crops. In Greek mythodology it was the death of the dark king and birth of the Sun King. Atime to give thanks for the beginnings of renewal. |
Storm |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 21:08:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
The problem with this is that most kids are told by other older children that Santa doesn't exist.
Ah, but then they are learning that other timeless truism, "Life isn't fair."
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/06/2004 21:08:45 |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 21:59:49 [Permalink]
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There's nothing wrong with Santa, I will let my kids believe in the Fat Red Man until they work it out. When they do, they do.
There is nothing like the excitement on a 3 year old's face when they see Santa.....
It's all harmless fun
quote:
I came to suspect that my parents were lying about much more than a fat guy in a red suit, and made it my mission to reveal this untruth the the whole neighborhood.
I presume you were something like The neighborhood Grinch....Bah Humbug |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 01:26:59 [Permalink]
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I don't recall how old I was when the big kids told me that Santa was really just a myth; only the Easter Bunny picking up a few, extra bucks in the off-season. I was, of course, devastated, but with the passing of the years, have come to accept it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 05:06:37 [Permalink]
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| The "critical thinking test" had occured to me, as well. Luckily for me, my Dad fostered my intellectual curiosity and knowledge of science from an early age, which is probably why I figured it out while I was fairly young. Not all parents do this, though, and seem to be upset when the kid does figure it out, which makes me still think that for the majority, the whole Santa thing is an execise in credulity: sell them on the Santa idea, and if they swallow that one, it's not a far stretch to have them end up attending church and voting Republican eventually! (Sure, I was one of those mean older kids--I'm still a jerk, lol, only now I'm more concerned with exposing myths adults believe in. I've never thought that believing lies is "cute," either in children or adults, though). |
"The amount of noise which anyone can bear stands in inverse proportion to his mental capacity." --Schopenhauer |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 05:35:46 [Permalink]
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Oh, c'mom. It's not that evil.
I've never bought it, but I'm still all for the Christmas excitment... it's, like, the only time of the year I can get off the reality shore ;) Except my own insane little world, of course. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 07:49:40 [Permalink]
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| My only gripe with Santa is that we have a family friend who dresses up as Santa each Christmas Eve for some Chamber of Commerce activity. He drops by my house thinking he's doing something wonderful for me (and the kids do love it) when he's actually causing me to have a nervous breakdown. There is nothing quite so stressful as giving little kids access to the big guy for all their last minute wishes and oversights after the stores have closed! |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 08:00:51 [Permalink]
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Indeed, you guys should give up Santa. You should go back to the roots and celebrate 'Sinterklaas', who arrives in the country with a steamer (the 'present boat') and is assisted by an army of 'black petes'. Who would be on the news a number of times and be seen on the streets everywhere with the black petes stirring up trouble all over the place. That's the only problem I see with Santa. It's not nearly twisted enough.
For the rest, come on man, it's harmless. If anything it teaches children a first lesson in critical thinking. It is at times opposed by fundamentalists because if they learn to distrust this fairy tale, they might learn to distrust a certain other one. Thinking of that, I'd say Santa (or better, 'Sinterklaas') should be an obligated part of every childhood, just to irritate the fundies. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 14:42:35 [Permalink]
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| It is the symbolism of Santa Claus that can be remember and passed onto our childen. I do not believe in the Santa Clause of Supernatural. But when the kids see Santa In the mall they reminded if Kris Kringle, St. Nick, and the Sun God. So what they get out of it and what I try to teach is the gift of giving. Especially to those in need. |
Storm |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 15:17:29 [Permalink]
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Hey, anything to irritate the fundies! I remember the local God squad being opposed to the idea when I was a kid, because a mysterious entity with a white beard who knows whether you've been bad or good, etc., sounds too much like, well, another big man in the sky.
Who knows, if I had children, I might get sucked into the whole thing too. I suppose that the harm or good of the whole thing depends on how the parents handle the whole thing. (I suppose that it's easy to be critical of parenting practices when you are childless your self, lol!) Remember that I'm half Vulcan, too, and human practices continue to be the source of puzzlement and frustration. |
"The amount of noise which anyone can bear stands in inverse proportion to his mental capacity." --Schopenhauer |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
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