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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
 Posted - 12/10/2004 : 01:17:25
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Is this the end of the world as we know it. EU's policies on the way to the great free speech, err eroding free speech America!
[Edited to make this link - Dave W.]
Blunkett faces revolt over religious hatred law
By Philip Johnston, Home Affairs Editor
(Filed: 08/12/2004)
David Blunkett faced a growing revolt last night over plans to make incitement to religious hatred a crime.
MPs from all parties denounced the measure, which has been condemned by legal experts, Christians, secular organisations and writers and comedians led by Rowan Atkinson.
The Home Secretary tried to address their concerns by setting out circumstances in which the law could be used.
During a Commons debate on the Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill, he said it was not intended that telling jokes about a faith should be caught by the offence, which carries a seven-year jail term.
But critics said the wording - which does not contain a definition of religion - was too loose and represented a threat to free speech. It says religious hatred "means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief''.
[Snipped much of article available at above link - Dave W.]
[Edited to fix link I made, above - Dave W.]
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 03:25:39 [Permalink]
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Damn verlch! I ain't even had my coffee yet......
As soon as you start trying to legislate religion, you're asking for trouble, even if it's no more that passing a law to the effect that you can't 'hate' another belief.
If I've read it correctly, it says "incitment to religious hatred." I would suppose that it would apply to those who bad-mouth others about their beliefs.
I wonder; if this should get passed, would Wicca, Jedi and other out-of-the-mainstream belief systems, as well as atheism be equally protecetd?
I think it's a bad idea. I'm sure the problem is covered by other laws and regulations and this would just add more ink. And one sees the possibility for abuse.
Coffee...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 06:16:41 [Permalink]
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| Not to forget Satanism, Spiritism and others. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 06:29:13 [Permalink]
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Will it be OK to mock people who lacks a religion but have a intensely personal relationship with Jesus Christ? |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 10:49:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Dave, how did you get it so that the entire thing with [ and ] would show up?
By putting lots of open/close italics tags in the thing.
In other words, to make this, one would type this:[url="http://www.google.com/"]this[/url] And to show that, one would type this:[[i][/i]url[i][/i]="http[i][/i]:[i][/i]//[i][/i]www[i][/i].google.com/[i][/i]"[i][/i]]this[[i][/i]/[i][/i]url] And you don't want to see what I typed in to get that. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 11:11:10 [Permalink]
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If I can learn to do it, any idiot can. It surn makes some pages a lot easier to read.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 12:59:53 [Permalink]
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Well the link doesn't go to the article. But now in France you can't make fun of women or gays. You can't make fun of me for being religous and I go to jail for cracking jokes at those that are not religous.
Sounds like both of us groups are going to lose our right to take a leak! Without the Iluminati or UN standing there watching us to make sure we don't offend the guy in the other stall. Pretty soon it will be illegal to speak! My vocal cords will rust...WTHECK!!!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 13:16:16 [Permalink]
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Im gonna take the time to respond to your silly sig verlch.
1) The egg is chicken.
2)Bacteria was in the soil well before any plants showed up on land, and by that time there was plenty of oxygen in the air from bacterial byproducts, many 'bugs' as you calls them do not require oxygen to begin with.
3) Didnt know you could 'feel' concepts.
4) Fables such as the numerous changes made to the holy texts since 200AD?
5) He is a lying son of a bitch, My bet is the bible is the 'delusion'
6) Wind is not a substance to be veiwed, It is a collection of molocules in gaseous form being pushed around by various forces and interpreted by your nerve endings as wind.
7) Evolution doesnt claim to answer every question like creationists think it should, in fact it cant talk at all.
8) Actually 'Radical Evolution" isnt alive and cannot search for fossils or draw, and humans have only been looking for about 140 years. Not surprisingly they find new fossil types every year!
9) This statement is just plain incomprehensable.
10) Judge not
4) |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 13:51:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Im gonna take the time to respond to your silly sig verlch.
1) The egg is chicken.
2)Bacteria was in the soil well before any plants showed up on land, and by that time there was plenty of oxygen in the air from bacterial byproducts, many 'bugs' as you calls them do not require oxygen to begin with.
3) Didnt know you could 'feel' concepts.
4) Fables such as the numerous changes made to the holy texts since 200AD?
5) He is a lying son of a bitch, My bet is the bible is the 'delusion'
6) Wind is not a substance to be veiwed, It is a collection of molocules in gaseous form being pushed around by various forces and interpreted by your nerve endings as wind.
7) Evolution doesnt claim to answer every question like creationists think it should, in fact it cant talk at all.
8) Actually 'Radical Evolution" isnt alive and cannot search for fossils or draw, and humans have only been looking for about 140 years. Not surprisingly they find new fossil types every year!
9) This statement is just plain incomprehensable.
10) Judge not
4)
Big Papa,
I'm not seeing the sig. Is it in this thread or another? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2004 : 13:52:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Well the link doesn't go to the article. But now in France you can't make fun of women or gays. You can't make fun of me for being religous and I go to jail for cracking jokes at those that are not religous.
Sounds like both of us groups are going to lose our right to take a leak! Without the Iluminati or UN standing there watching us to make sure we don't offend the guy in the other stall. Pretty soon it will be illegal to speak! My vocal cords will rust...WTHECK!!!!
I would say that is because you have to register on The Guardian to view an article from August. I was able to find the article pretty quickly using their search function.
It is still no excuse for copyright infringement. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 12/10/2004 13:53:26 |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 10:53:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Not to forget Satanism, Spiritism and others.
Yeah, and Eckankar!  |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 19:45:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Will it be OK to mock people who lacks a religion but have a intensely personal relationship with Jesus Christ?
Goes both ways. You can't call me a Jesus freak and I can't call you a monkies uncle!
Europe is Liberal, if Europe was part of America the whole country would be blue (feeling the blues). Its only a matter of time before pussified Americans fall in love with EU's ways of living! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 19:57:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
You can't call me a Jesus freak and I can't call you a monkies uncle!
There's a religion which teaches that people are the ancestors of monkies? WTF?
Oh, wait, it's just verlch, thinking again that evolution is a religion, but getting evolution's past directions backwards.quote:
Europe is Liberal, if Europe was part of America the whole country would be blue (feeling the blues). Its only a matter of time before pussified Americans fall in love with EU's ways of living!
Um, that's what happened in the 1960's, man. Look around you, it's already occured, yet the country is red as blood. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2004 : 22:49:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Europe is Liberal, if Europe was part of America the whole country would be blue (feeling the blues). Its only a matter of time before pussified Americans fall in love with EU's ways of living!
This is why V is the poster-boy for whatever fringe conservative, anti-global, whack-job movement there is. Despite the fact that the country is showing a gradual trend towards religious conservatism. People like Verlch are convinced that the US is just a step away from Communism. Crazed conspiracy-minded groups will doubtless grow rich taking money from our resident dumb@!## by raising the alarm to the (imaginary) concern that we're "only a matter of time" from being Liberal. They'll ask for his $25.00 and try again next year with a whole new barrage of ads "proving" that Jews are this much closer to running the world.
Sadly, Verlch seems to thrive on playing the oppressed martyr and will doubtless view himself as a minority in all ways despite his (tragic) mainstream views in many areas.
(Edited because I should watch my language and be nicer) |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 12/12/2004 10:13:13 |
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