|
|
|
rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2001 : 21:48:05
|
A Rambling Essay on the Cultural Meaning of “Humanity”:
As I sit here (admittedly, a few sheets to the wind,) appalled, depressed and mesmerized by the events of this day (September 11, 2001) I reflect on the “soul” of humanity. What causes these horrific events, these primal urges that require those with diseased and fanatical minds to destroy those things that are the stuff of life, those mundane but lovely days that begin with a subway ride on the “A” line to the World Trade Center, only to see your life destroyed sitting at your desk before you can take the first sip of your Starbucks Colombian? What is it about this day that made you book the flight from Boston to Los Angeles on American Airlines flight 11?? Was it the early arrival time that would let you have a power lunch while making that deal in Hollywood? Or did you want more miles on American towards that trip to Europe? Why didn't anyone tell you that you that you would be used as a weapon of terrorism against the very life you hold dear, that you would never see your wife/husband/children again as you exploded helplessly into a 110-story building in the heart of the most exciting and vibrant city in the world? Why weren't you warned? Or should this be expected?
Will we spend the rest of our lives watching that CNN footage in our minds, over and over again, when the second hijacked airline slams into WTC 2? Or will we wake up and realize that this is a real nightmare that can prepare us to face our future lives in a world dominated with lunatic fanatics of every ilk (religious, political, tribal, nationalistic)? What does this all mean in a vast universe filled with mystery and possibility?
Are humans doomed to destruction? Are we programmed for annihilation? Or is there something else in play here? Humans are essentially the same, when stripped down to their DNA coding and cellular structure. Oh, a few minor tweaks here and there decide if you're blonde or raven-haired, or dark-skinned or light-skinned, but it's nothing significant or really measurable. Our DNA is so similar to ever other human and to our primate cousins that chimpanzee DNA can be used to calibrate test samples. If you remove the skin from a Serbian and Ethnic Albanian, what you have left is indistinguishable. What separates humans who love others, read fine books, work hard and enjoy life from the deranged fanatics who hate those lives and vow to destroy them?
There is only one thing that separates us: CULTURE. Culture dictates how much we submit to religious belief, brotherhood, tribalism, nationalism, fear, hate, and intolerance. Culture determines how we treat both genders, animals, nature, knowledge and freedom. Culture is the disease and the cure, the destroyer and the salvation. Do we let a culture prevail that rules with ignorance and fanaticism, or should it be enlightened and peaceful?
I don't know the answers. I only know that tonight, while contemplating the horror (again and again) of the World Trade Centers and part of the Pentagon being destroyed because of some cultural mythology, I am PISSED. I am ready for a scorched earth, take-no-prisoners, massive destruction of those who would destroy our loved ones and these places. This is a war, declared by those who would arbitrarily pass judgment on our lives. So, let us acknowledge that war and declare our own: rampant terrorism has no place in our world and shall be destroyed, and those that fund and harbor terrorists will forever wish they had not entertained and sheltered fanatics who choose to destroy others simply because of their beliefs and their culture. I humbly acknowledge that revenge is the folly of the simple-minded, but my intellect has probably been blinded by the visual image of the World Trade Center towers collapsing into rubble and the horrific image of those who hopped onto domestic flights this morning in Boston, Newark and Washington, not realizing that they would be pawns in the ultimate
|
|
|
Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2001 : 22:21:53 [Permalink]
|
I think you hit upon it when you mentioned culture.
I can not for the life of me understand why anybody who understand americans would think this would in some way further their cause. Obviously done by people that DON'T understand american culture. The quote that keeps going through my mind is what Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto said after the bombing of pearl harbor "I fear all we have done is to wake a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible rage". He went to school in america, and understood this. This was exactly the WRONG thing to do. We will stop bickering among ourselves and collectively get really pissed and kick some ass.
I'm jumping to conclusions here, and assuming it has something to do with the middle east, but please bare me out. Just as they don't understand us culturally, we don't understand them culturally. I've always been sympathetic to the plight of the palistinians and for the life of me don't understand their hatred of us. We have been trying to help, and I suppose rather ineptly, since they DO hate at us. Kids in Palistine are dancing in the streets, celebrating this.
We need to learn to accept each other's differences culturally. And try to peacably work things out.
However, even having said that, whoever did this, whatever country help backed them, should have the full might of american miltary power thrown at them. The time to work this out peacefully is over. The other quote that was been going through my head all day long is one from bugs bunny "of course you know, this means WAR".
I consider this a state of war, even if it is an unseen, unknown enemy
"Goddammit! The world is just filling up with more and more idiots! And the computer is giving them access to the world! They're
spreading their stupidity! At least they were contained before--now they're on the loose everywhere!"? |
 |
|
|
Dog_Ed
Skeptic Friend
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2001 : 23:07:57 [Permalink]
|
rubysue: I sympathize. The act was abhorrent, senseless. I am against the slaughter of innocent people, whether they live in New York or Afghanistan. It ain't appeasement or political correctitude (I don't think), it is just that we are better than Osama bin Laden and his men. We are humans.
Personally I think humans have a hardwired empathy with other mammals, and doubly so for other human beings. Killing is a visceral horror, unless our natural empathy is disabled by rage, fear, or the indoctrination which is part of the necessary training of a combat soldier.
Terrorists have crippled their humanity in a more terrible way, by designating a whole population enemy and marking them, mentally, for death. (At least a well-trained modern soldier avoids killing civilians and finds events like the Mai Lai massacre abhorrent.)
Call me a starry-eyed pollyanna, but I think most USians are fundamentally human, and find needless killing--even when it's cloaked in the euphemism "collateral damage"--morally repugnant. And I don't think it honors the dead to kill carelessly in the name of vengeance. Again, that's my personal opinion. Everyone's got one, and ain't nobody got a lock on the truth.
Take care.
"Even Einstein put his foot in it sometimes" |
|
|
|
ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 00:01:17 [Permalink]
|
Your feelings are quite understandable, rubysue, yet horrific though today's events were, a massive, premature, and possibly misdirected "Kill-A-Thon-" exercising the same cavalier disregard for innocents, while dismissing civilians as "collateral damage" as we've too often seen- isn't the answer. As you eloquently noted, the life-forms on the other side of the globe are just as human as we are, and somehow, "collateral damage" takes on a new meaning when it includes our relatives. This is equally true at any spot on the surface of the planet. Retaliation in the form of punishing the guilty, whether at an organizational or national level, while reassessing and reinforcing our vulnerabilities to prevent future attacks would be more appropriate and effective. McVeigh murdered a lot of people, and retribution was just- summarily executing an equal number from every radical group he associated with who's views we found threatening wouldn't have been "An Eye For An Eye…" it would have put us on the same level as the Gestapo equivalents of corrupt Banana Republics, ultimately resulting in greater damage, and probably further tragedy. The culprits likely residing in a far corner of the World doesn't mean the same wouldn't apply.
[/quote]
Ron White |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 00:06:38 [Permalink]
|
quote:
McVeigh murdered a lot of people, and retribution was just- summarily executing an equal number from every radical group he associated with who's views we found threatening wouldn't have been "An Eye For An Eye…"
If the government had done that it would have been the government McVie feared in the first place.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
|
|
|
bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 01:30:25 [Permalink]
|
I'm pretty sure the US will find out who did it they will send everything they have at them. I expect most of the world to be behind them and to help get rid of the terrorists.
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
|
|
|
NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 02:07:45 [Permalink]
|
"Your feelings are quite understandable, rubysue, yet horrific though today's events were, a massive, premature, and possibly misdirected "Kill-A-Thon-" exercising the same cavalier disregard for innocents, while dismissing civilians as "collateral damage" as we've too often seen- isn't the answer."
There are no innocents, there never were. "He who gives comfort and aid to my enemy, is my enemy." The world is as we find it, not as we might like it to be. To change it, is the privilege of only the victors. Our choice is simple, to be victims, or muster the will to be victors. Our enemies know and understand this all too well. The question is, can we, behind our very thin veil of civilization, remember it in time to perserve our own notion of culture and civility?
Make no mistake about it, rooting out the forces of terroristic fundamentalism, would be a long, hard, and bloody messy task. It would take sustained will and inspired leadership. It well may be that we don't have the stomach for it over the long haul. Our demonstrated enemies are convinced, that that is the case. They have declared their intentions, and now, have brought war to our shores.
For all of its faults, as many as there are, am damned proud to be an American. Look at us, every ethnic group, every religion as well as atheists, every philosophy, as in most of the "Free World," is represented. While we may want more, bigger, better, we have a better chance at getting at least contentment in this imperfect system, than any other on this mudball. Hell, we are the world.
Perhaps its an outgrowth of the natural pressures of overpopulation, dunno, but it seems, that ever several generations, mankind must re-learn, why war is to be avoided. Would rather be the teacher, than the taught. If the unjustly dead must be morned, want them to be of my enemy's, than of mine. Let them puzzel out our movitives, have seen enough of our own unjustly killed, to care any longer what their's might be. Freedom just isn't free, never has been, nor will be.
"The object of war is not to die for your country,
but to make the other bastard, die for his."
-General George Patton-
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire |
|
|
|
Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 02:32:50 [Permalink]
|
quote:
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire
This perhaps sums it up doesn't it. Once again the unspeakable dangers of dogmatic belief is revealed, and unfortunately, many have had to, and will yet pay for it with their lives.
Unfortunately, I am somewhat cynical about the world seeing it this way. The pervasive and harmful influence of dogmatism has scarcely been recognised by the majority of people out there..
Find your own damned answers! |
|
|
|
ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 02:34:58 [Permalink]
|
Thanks for the counterpoint, NubiWan... I guess I'm just another bleeding-heart liberal, yet I can't help but wonder how becoming relatively indescriminant conquerers is going to serve our self-interests in the long run. I guess it's worked for a number of dictators... for a while.
Ron White |
|
|
|
Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 05:13:07 [Permalink]
|
There are those who do unspeakable acts in our (the US) name daily without our (citizens) knowlege. We have to stop propping up dictators and fascists and making heros out of terrorists.
Greg.
|
|
|
|
Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
|
|
The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 07:27:34 [Permalink]
|
quote:
...those who hopped onto domestic flights this morning in Boston, Newark and Washington, not realizing that they would be pawns in the ultimate day of terror.
I heard the news on the car radio minutes after the first hit. I was dropping my two lovely children off at school, and I immediately thought of other children. Those on the aircraft, those in the daycare centres in the building, those who were perhaps taking a tourist trip to the building, those who would be left without a parent...
Respecting every culture may not be possible. It would mean that we would have to accept those cultures which wish to destroy ours. We would be like a person who refuses to defend themselves because their principles exclude violence even to protect their own lives. There are no easy answers.
One thing I will NOT stand for, and I've begun to hear it already, is the 'blame the victim' attitude. Yes, America has done some nasty things, yes, your government backs dictators who would be better as shark food, but most of those killed yesterday were innocent of anything.
I'm going to get a few sheets to the wind myself today Rubysue. I'll hoist one for you.
Dave Bailey
Free speech; excercise it or SHUT UP! |
|
|
|
Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 09:37:36 [Permalink]
|
Yeah, Ed and I joined you last night with the sheets to the wind bit.
I think the only thing that is keeping me from falling into a pit of depression is overwhelming anger, and one heck of a sarky hangover.
I'm as pissed today as I was yesterday, and still not really thinking clearly or rationally. Remember what the road from Basra looked like when our fighter jets were done with it? THAT's what I want done to the masterminds of this outrage. I want them bombed and strafed and ground into bloody dust. If this was "home-grown" terrorism, who cares? I know it's against everything we believe (not to mention the law) for active duty personnel to take up arms against American citizens, but we can apologize later.
I'm still waiting to hear word of friends I have in the Pentagon. Every hour that goes by with no word, I just get angrier. I have a bad feeling that when the Pentagon releases the information, it'll be another sheets to the wind night.
Sorry for the rambling, but like I said, I'm too pissed to really think rationally. Maybe by tonight I'll be clamer, but I doubt it.
Lisa
|
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 10:10:19 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Yeah, Ed and I joined you last night with the sheets to the wind bit.
I think the only thing that is keeping me from falling into a pit of depression is overwhelming anger, and one heck of a sarky hangover.
I'm as pissed today as I was yesterday, and still not really thinking clearly or rationally. Remember what the road from Basra looked like when our fighter jets were done with it? THAT's what I want done to the masterminds of this outrage. I want them bombed and strafed and ground into bloody dust. If this was "home-grown" terrorism, who cares? I know it's against everything we believe (not to mention the law) for active duty personnel to take up arms against American citizens, but we can apologize later.
I'm still waiting to hear word of friends I have in the Pentagon. Every hour that goes by with no word, I just get angrier. I have a bad feeling that when the Pentagon releases the information, it'll be another sheets to the wind night.
Sorry for the rambling, but like I said, I'm too pissed to really think rationally. Maybe by tonight I'll be clamer, but I doubt it.
Lisa
The feeling I have over what should happen to those responsible for the attack and the country responsible is flattened, scorched, salted earth where flies go hungry.
|
|
|
|
Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 12:25:10 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Call me a starry-eyed pollyanna, but I think most USians are fundamentally human, and find needless killing--even when it's cloaked in the euphemism "collateral damage"--morally repugnant.
The pivotal word here is "needless". If there is a country that actively harbors the group that did this, it is an act of war. Acts of war must be dealt with militarily.
We should do everything we can to minimize civilian casualties, but this must always take a back seat to meeting our objectives.
At the risk of offending some people here (not my intent), this attitude of "starry-eyed Pollyannaism" as you call it ( ), or bleeding heart liberalism, is dangerous in these situations. When this kind of attitude works it's way up into our government and (gods forbid) our military, the people who are letting their misguided sense of "humanity" rule their choices end up contributing to the deaths of the people that died yesterday.
Killing innocents is horrible, but people who realize that sometimes it is necessary are no less "human" than any other "bleeding heart liberal".
------------
Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2001 : 12:38:14 [Permalink]
|
quote:
I'm as pissed today as I was yesterday, and still not really thinking clearly or rationally. Remember what the road from Basra looked like when our fighter jets were done with it? THAT's what I want done to the masterminds of this outrage. I want them bombed and strafed and ground into bloody dust.
Me too.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
