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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 09/25/2001 : 06:48:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Don't know to what you're referring, but in case it has something to do with what I said, there is no way that I said that the U.S. is at "fault" for something someone outside the U.S. did. What I did say is that if you are interested in rounding up terrorists, if you don't take a long hard look at Henry Kissinger, then you're not really interested in peace.
Damn, don't get paranoid on me. Referring to other threads and others statements - maybe. 
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 08:39:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Now to Rubysue,
Well, I sat down the other night and took the time to write this out long hand without reading the other posts on your 3 rants. And am aware that I am culpable in at least one of them. I would like you to know that I enjoy your posts whether I agree with you in whole, in part or not at all. Though I must point out that the latter is rarely the case.
I will address you second rant as I seem to have been one of the main participants in this point of view. For me personally, this is/was borne of my mother running around *day of prayer* this and *day of prayer* that. And her anger that there are atheists that might not appreciate the day of prayer aspect - her opinion they should pray anyway. So, I was still wounded by her lack of sensitivity to those without her perspective on religion. (Folks wonder why I won't tell her I don't believe anymore and maybe never really did.) Even so, I am unsure that I was ready to mourn as I am still trying to contemplate my particularly unemotional response to the horrific events of 11 Sept.
Ok. Religious people who were not confident in their faith would act similarly to your mother. Your mother lashed out at you out of confusion and hurt. You only hurt the ones you love worst because you can trust them not to walk away from you forever.
Your "strangely unemotional" response is probably due to the training you recieve in the service. Becoming a basket case in combat gets you killed. You are getting ready for action against an attacker, there is no time for grief or mourning. It will come later when you think you have time to deal with it. The pictures were surreal. My only real response was indignation and anger. I seem to be out of tears and anguish after attending the funeral for the two year old son of a lady I was dating at the time. I got past it, in part, by the role I delegate to religion. You have a different way to get past it.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 09:27:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
About laying blame (rubysue, maybe you will appreciate this....)
The CIA shouldn't have backed bin Laden.
OK - maybe the Soviets shouldn't have invaded one of the most progressive Islamic societies.
The Soviets wanted/needed a southern port.
OK, maybe the Brit that said *he who rules the ocean rules the world* shouldn't have
Guess it Brittains fault.
Wait - we wouldn't have poor relation w/the Soviets if not for the nuclear bomb
OK I get it - it Einsteins fault
But wait - we wouldn't have developed the A bomb unless Japan hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor.
It's the fault of the Japanese.
But that Japanese never would have truck at the US if it hadn't been for the encouragement of the 3rd Reich in an attempt to keep the US out of Europe.
It's Hitler's fault.
Do you see where I'm going here? Eventually I can take this back to Hunter/Gatherers starting to farm in the Fertile Cresent. But, ultimately it's the fault of the first Homo (whatever I can't remember) that developed some concept of a sense of self. Unless you believe in some god who took special pains to create us - then it's his/her fault.
So you're saying that even if Osama bin laden planned and paid for the WTC/Pentagon attacks that we shouldn't blame him because it tok place in the past and he wasn't directly involved? Yeal all right of you say so.
I suppose we should expect British troops on US soil soon. They'll want to go after IRA supporters our country has been allowing to stay here. All the celebrities that hold fund raisers and other private citizens that have contibuted money and held fund raisers.
I suppose the British could invoke the NATO charter as Bush did and well need to go to Ireland to help them take care of those terrorists if we're going to go after all of them.
I suppose there will be collatoral damage, but that's par for the course if you're harboring terrorists.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 11:04:17 [Permalink]
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No @tomic,
That's not what I was intending. It's was intended as a sarcastic/irreverent look at going back in history to find root cause for any thing that we can't really explain. Plus, if you'll read two posts prior....
Everything in history has some type of thread leading all the way back to whenever. For each action taken there are multiple effects. We can't guage those effects. Who knew that farming and agriculture would lead to fuedal systems. No one, they [ancient humans] were only interested in keeping their bellies full and their butts warm and dry. Damn, find some humor in things. It is and was meant as a form of dark humor, I suppose.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 11:27:04 [Permalink]
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Sorry Trish,
Humor is sometimes hard to read.
But I still wonder about the IRA thing. We have set a precedent now...
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 11:31:33 [Permalink]
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Is that terrorism against a justified government? Or is that classified as freedom fighters fighting against the usurpers? I think the answer would be different if you asked a Taig (sp?) [Catholic] and a Prot [Protestant].
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 11:49:01 [Permalink]
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If justification is not being considered and that we are just concerned with acts of terrorism then the British have every right to ask for our aid. The British are our allies aren't they? Could we deny an allies call to arms. What if they say we are with them or against them? What if they start freezing the assets of American citizens?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 12:07:19 [Permalink]
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Gee, why do I feel like I'm walking on egg shells with this. I don't necessarily agree with everything Bush has said regarding the movement to work against terrorism.
You see, If I say the British have the right of the situation I really go a long way toward pissing off at least 1/2 my family (the Irish Catholic half anyway. I somehow don't the the Welsh would much care nor the German.) Tho, recently you see rocks and debris thrown at (Catholic) school children by the opposing side. Isn't that terrorism of the type declared by bin Laden? Even the children must die.
I'm sorry, even if I was on the opposing side - I would have to protect the children - physically. That's a 500 (?) year mess. I think Slater has the right of it - if your Irish stay if your not - go away.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 13:31:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
What I did say is that if you are interested in rounding up terrorists, if you don't take a long hard look at Henry Kissinger, then you're not really interested in peace.
Lets see. Maybe your right. Frankly, I thought Nixon was a mass murderer. I think we should dig him up and hang his rotting corps in some square somewhere. What we should do with Kissinger is take him out as he is leaving a book signing. They are highly publicized events so it should be no problem finding him. He is on Larry King a lot too. Maybe we could take him out on his way into CNN. Have to be careful though. He may have bombs strapped to his waist. My guess is that all the money he makes from books and doing talk show's help to support the terrorist, Henry Kissinger.
I'm not sure how this will help the present situation but what the hell..? I mean, I care about peace.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2001 : 14:13:48 [Permalink]
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I don't have any clear way of knowing if it will help, but if you're going to start this battle of "good and evil," and bomb every terrorist and all "collateral damage" within a thousand miles of every terrorist, then you'd better start bombing D.C. tomorrow.
quote:
quote:
What I did say is that if you are interested in rounding up terrorists, if you don't take a long hard look at Henry Kissinger, then you're not really interested in peace.
Lets see. Maybe your right. Frankly, I thought Nixon was a mass murderer. I think we should dig him up and hang his rotting corps in some square somewhere. What we should do with Kissinger is take him out as he is leaving a book signing. They are highly publicized events so it should be no problem finding him. He is on Larry King a lot too. Maybe we could take him out on his way into CNN. Have to be careful though. He may have bombs strapped to his waist. My guess is that all the money he makes from books and doing talk show's help to support the terrorist, Henry Kissinger.
I'm not sure how this will help the present situation but what the hell..? I mean, I care about peace.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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