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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 10/18/2001 : 23:48:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Oh how I long for the days when Warfare was treated with Honour. Sure, it didn't affect the Slaughter much, but at least, because you treated your Enemy with Respect, Wars were, a lot, easier to Stop!
Respect? Read sometime about the Battle of Bataan and the Death March or the Rape of Nan King. That was not respect - that was utter lack of empathy for human life and worth. War isn't honorable, maybe the reasons for war can be considered that way, and maybe individual acts can be considered honorable or heroic, but war itself is ugly.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2001 : 03:33:44 [Permalink]
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Yes, those events were horrible, and mostly stemmed from the Japanese Refusal to extend their Warrior Code to others, except when it was to their advantage, as with POWs.
However, historically, most cultures have come up with methods of reducing Bloodshed, and Cultural Damage, which range from Pre-Agreed Rules of Engagement, all the way up to the Complete Ritualization of Warfare, itself. These examples include, but are not limited to, the Pre-Planned Battles of the Greek City States, where a Battle would take place at a Pre-Arranged Location, and for a Pre-Determined amount of Time, at which point, the Army with the most Men left standing, the rest would generally be dead, would be Declared the Winner, by impartial Observers; the Counting of Coup in Pre-Columbian America, whereby Combatants would attempt to touch an Enemy with a Ceremonial Stick, instead of killing them, and of course the European Tradition, of Trial by Champion, where Battles, and rarely, even Whole Wars, would be decided by the Outcome of a Single, sometimes Non-Lethal, Fight. In fact, there is even some echo of this, in our own Policy of Mutually Assured Destruction, which up until recently had kept the Mainlands of the Nuclear Powers, more or less, untouched by Warfare.
Moreover, even in World War II, the Correct, sometimes even Honourable, Actions of, both the Afrika Korps, and the British, remain legendary.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away.
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/19/2001 03:35:43
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/19/2001 03:37:33 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2001 : 03:57:00 [Permalink]
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The Bastards of Bataan were POWs for three (?) years under the Japanese. There was no minimizing blood shed. These men were tortured under Japanese captivity before being transfered to Japan to work. Seriously, look it up.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2001 : 04:02:56 [Permalink]
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You're right in principle, Zaph, but some of the specifics are simple myth-making (I challenge the notion of the neutral observers determing city-state winners in Greece; clashes were somewhat formalized due to constraints of time and geography, but the victors made themselves the victors through push of shield; carnage in the pursuit of a routed enemy was common.)
Still, it's an interesting fact that warfare has had more than one path of development.
An interesting tidbit that I remind my colleagues in the military is that honorable conduct in warfare (as perceived by the fighting class of your opponents) can reap great rewards. Britain invaded Afghanistan twice in the 19th century and ultimately lost both times, but the Afghans respected the warrior spirit of their soldiers. Markers and memorials of the Afghan fights with the British are scattered throughout southeast Afghanistan, particularly near the Khyber Pass. At least until the early 1980's, the Afghanis studiously maintained them as a sign of respect. I don't know if it's still true since the Soviet invasion.
My kids still love me. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2001 : 04:49:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
An interesting tidbit that I remind my colleagues in the military is that honorable conduct in warfare (as perceived by the fighting class of your opponents) can reap great rewards. Britain invaded Afghanistan twice in the 19th century and ultimately lost both times, but the Afghans respected the warrior spirit of their soldiers. Markers and memorials of the Afghan fights with the British are scattered throughout southeast Afghanistan, particularly near the Khyber Pass.
I actually remember reading this somewhere recently.
Ignore me for the most part, my head isn't exactly screwed on straight right now.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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darwin alogos
SFN Regular
USA
532 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2001 : 17:17:58 [Permalink]
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If there is no God,then all is permisable
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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Topic Locked
