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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 10/13/2001 : 04:46:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
I've yet to see *protests* against what's happening in Iraq.
Another victory of the "free press." If you'd really really been reading every page of the paper and watched and listened to every news broadcast in the past ten years you might sometimes get an inkling that there are protests about a lot of things most people don't know about. Even if you do see protests, if you'd only watch the evening news you'd think that for instance, the protests against the World Bank and GATT, etc. are just a bunch of black-clad psychos that want to battle with police.
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If you really believe in your cause - if there are those who really believe in your cause - then vocally support such cause.
Well, aren't I doing that? Aren't they doing that?
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You have the right to protest, and enough protests might just get the attention of the National Media.
Often they don't, and if they do, the coverage is pretty skewed. Like I said, when I first read, "The Fire This Time" by Ramsey Clark a few years after it was published by a small publishing house, I scurried around to see what people were saying about it. There was no discussion at all.
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Instead you say the same thing again and again and again. You, to some, have belittled who and what they are, denied - much as has Kathleen Parker - what their lives are about.
Don't know who you think I've belittled at all. You haven't been reading my posts if you think I've belittled anyone.
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I don't deny you your right to say what you will - don't deny mine. I was only reminding you that you are calling killers those who felt it was their duty to serve their country and by association you.
There were never any more honorable people than the fighting men of Germany. I'm talking about those that weren't Nazis. Are you saying that they weren't part of a criminal agenda?
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"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
I agree. While it may not be "terrifying," unthinking faith is dangerous. Unthinking faith in the power of war, unthinking faith in the "rightness" of vengeance, unthinking faith in the need to blame someone else for our own anger.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2001 : 19:27:59 [Permalink]
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Garrette, I must admit that I came close to voting for Bush. But, I didn't like any of my choices. And McCain impressed the hell out of me when that reporter asked him about what he's say if his daughter came home pregnant and wanted an abortion. The sad part was that the pro-life group, instead of understanding his desire to respect his daughters choice, denounced him for not forcing his will on his daughter.
Oh well. Would you have voted for McCain had he won the ticket instead of Bush?
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 03:51:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Oh well. Would you have voted for McCain had he won the ticket instead of Bush?
You betcha, but I'm glad he didn't.
P.S., I liked his reply, too; it voiced my opinion just about exactly (I've been asked the same question on several occasions; in my case, I was derided by pro-lifers AND pro-choicers).
My kids still love me. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 03:57:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
You betcha, but I'm glad he didn't.
Why? Any reason in particular?
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 04:03:19 [Permalink]
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Personally, it would be a tough choice, every pun intended, but I probably still wouldn't have voted for McCain, mostly because I know who his friends are.
If, however, he ran as a Democrat, I'd vote for him in a minute, because I'd be able to trust that he wouldn't support some Far-Right Bill, just because the Party Higher-Ups, told him to. In the meantime, I'm preparing to vote for Joe Lieberman, as he and I agree on 95% of the Issues, and I trust him to do what's best for himself, rather than toe, either, Party's Line.
While I just hate to sink to Partisanship, the fact that Anti-Choice is a Major Republican Plank, makes me shy away from all of them, regardless of professed beliefs, because when it comes time to pass a law, Personal Beliefs, tend to go right out the Window!
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away. |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2001 : 04:07:22 [Permalink]
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Trish, you asked if there were any reason in particular that I am glad McCain didn't win the Republican ticket.
I'm ashamed to say that I can't remember anything specific; all I can come up with is that I was fairly certain of his inconsistency, and I didn't trust him much.
Can I still be a skeptic?
My kids still love me. |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2001 : 04:08:44 [Permalink]
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One final thing, Trish: In penance for not remembering my reasons for disliking McCain, I rescind my earlier statement and now freely admit that you are, in fact, perfect.
My kids still love me. |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2001 : 04:09:55 [Permalink]
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(And just in case it isn't totally clear: that last post is NOT sarcastic or a jab; it was said with a big smile, but I don't do emoticons so you have to just imagine it)
My kids still love me. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2001 : 08:26:20 [Permalink]
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No questions Garrette. Took it with a self depricating laugh. Hopefully in the manner you intended.
Despite some opinions to the contrary - I am quite capable of laughing at myself.
Edited for my bad typing skills.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Edited by - Trish on 10/17/2001 08:27:07 |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 12:06:18 [Permalink]
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Hey rubysue, and any other "flag wavers" around here... You've probably seen this by now, but in case you haven't. Wonder how we are perceived half way around the world?
A perception of the American Spirit
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 15:11:56 [Permalink]
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I can't access that page Nubi Wan.
Maybe you should try reentering it.
I'm sure that it'll be worth the wait!
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 15:15:22 [Permalink]
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Here's another perception of America that I think is even more important. But that's just me...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,551036,00.html
I really do think American's are living in denial as this article says and personal experience has reinforced this opinion.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 15:41:57 [Permalink]
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It's Inflammatory.
Unfortunately, it's also right!
We do seem to have reaped what we have sown. We really should get back to the Bargaining Table. But first, let's at least seek justice against those, who have already hurt us. Otherwise, we will have Nothing to show for it, and no way to gain the Reparations, that we deserve.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away.
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/18/2001 15:42:57
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/18/2001 15:43:46 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 16:02:54 [Permalink]
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I'm all for hitting whoever attacked the Trade Center etc, but as I keep saying, the only way to a lasting solution is to find out what drives the terrorists and to do what's possible and reasonable to remove their motivation.
Ignoring the real problems just means we end up like ireland and try to minimize the attacks knowing it will never end. I just don't find that to be a satisfactory future.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 21:00:58 [Permalink]
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Alright, my respect for John McCain, just went down a notch, because of what he said on Letterman, just now.
The jokes about the US House, I could take or leave, but his Asinine Joke about Bin Laden, simply floored me.
Oh how I long for the days when Warfare was treated with Honour. Sure, it didn't affect the Slaughter much, but at least, because you treated your Enemy with Respect, Wars were, a lot, easier to Stop!
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away.
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/18/2001 21:01:19
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/18/2001 21:02:09 |
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