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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2001 : 14:13:13 [Permalink]
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That's great Gorgo. It doesn't apply to what the US is doing now obviously but sure it could happen.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 15:12:49 [Permalink]
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Not sure which part you mean that isn't happening now. Maybe not supporting dictators? I'm not sure who the U.S. is supporting in Afghanistan. It appeared as though they were supporting the Northern Alliance, but they seem to stop at anything that gives the Northern Alliance much help.
The Northern Alliance appears to be worse than the Taliban in some respects, but I haven't quite figured that one out yet.
The rest of the articles apply to what's happening now, I'd say.
quote:
That's great Gorgo. It doesn't apply to what the US is doing now obviously but sure it could happen.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 16:18:33 [Permalink]
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I don't think it applies to what the US is doing. See, you say that anything the US military does is terrorism no matter how richly the receiving party deserves it. The President could step on a bug and you'd call it a rights violation.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 18:47:58 [Permalink]
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Well, tell me you're not of the same mindset as the others that aren't able to read what is written, and can only react either with unthinking devotion or self-righteous anger.
Everything the military does is terrorism? I didn't think you worthy of this kind of thinking.
Anyway, the people of Afghanistan are not bugs. It's a fragile situation, at the least.
Back to the Northern Alliance, Rumsfeld has said that the Taliban defenses are not safe on the front lines, so it seems that the U.S. is going to take sides.
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I don't think it applies to what the US is doing. See, you say that anything the US military does is terrorism no matter how richly the receiving party deserves it. The President could step on a bug and you'd call it a rights violation.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 20:45:45 [Permalink]
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the death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million a statistic. j.v.stalin
william sherman noted that in order to defeat the confederacy, it was necessary to destroy the will of the people to continue fighting. he made the civilian population of the south join the suffering of its army.
the philosophy that led to union victory in the civil war is still very relevant today. when one wants to impose one's will on another violence is often useful.
comrade billyboy |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2001 : 05:14:33 [Permalink]
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Well, there are a lot of comparisons to be made between U.S. administrations and the Hitler and Stalin regimes. They learned a lot from each other. I'm told that Hitler, or Goebbels, learned a lot about propaganda from the U.S., and the U.S. has gone on to perfect it.
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the death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million a statistic. j.v.stalin
william sherman noted that in order to defeat the confederacy, it was necessary to destroy the will of the people to continue fighting. he made the civilian population of the south join the suffering of its army.
the philosophy that led to union victory in the civil war is still very relevant today. when one wants to impose one's will on another violence is often useful.
comrade billyboy
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2001 : 06:29:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Well, there are a lot of comparisons to be made between U.S. administrations and the Hitler and Stalin regimes. They learned a lot from each other. I'm told that Hitler, or Goebbels, learned a lot about propaganda from the U.S., and the U.S. has gone on to perfect it. [Gorgo]
And the Muslim countries of the Middle East and Central Asia are models of Islamic democracy? 'Scuse me while I barf. EVERY country is a bastard at some point in it's history. Some are able to maintain it better than others.
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Anyway, the people of Afghanistan are not bugs. It's a fragile situation, at the least
True enough. They're not bugs, they're scorpions.
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The Northern Alliance appears to be worse than the Taliban in some respects, but I haven't quite figured that one out yet.
There are many varieties of scorpions, Gorgo. We want to step on the Taliban, but we'll keep the variety called Northern Alliance 'cause it looks prettier when the light shines on it. However, if you've read the latest rumblings from Pakistan, THEY don't like the Northern Alliance either, because they are the wrong tribe. Perhaps, what is needed is a tarantula for a government. It's more docile as long as it's not disturbed. Still has a nasty bite, though.
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Back to the Northern Alliance, Rumsfeld has said that the Taliban defenses are not safe on the front lines, so it seems that the U.S. is going to take sides.
OF COURSE we're targeting the Taliban! They were stupid enough to challange us at a time of national fury. They presented themselves to Bush on the chopping block of revenge. What President wouldn't kick them in the balls.
Gee whiz, Gorgo. In the interests of true peace, let's route all U.S. mail through the U.N. post office and let THOSE poor bastards sort the letters with bare hands.
(:raig |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2001 : 06:47:51 [Permalink]
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And the Muslim countries of the Middle East and Central Asia are models of Islamic democracy? 'Scuse me while I barf. EVERY country is a bastard at some point in it's history. Some are able to maintain it better than others.
Barf if that helps you think. (0: Not sure what your point is here.
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True enough. They're not bugs, they're scorpions.
Well, I'm not sure of your opinion of bugs, but hopefully it's pretty good, because this tells me about how you think of yourself.
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There are many varieties of scorpions, Gorgo. We want to step on the Taliban, but we'll keep the variety called Northern Alliance 'cause it looks prettier when the light shines on it. However, if you've read the latest rumblings from Pakistan, THEY don't like the Northern Alliance either, because they are the wrong tribe. Perhaps, what is needed is a tarantula for a government. It's more docile as long as it's not disturbed. Still has a nasty bite, though.
You can almost bet that the U.S. won't be supporting any real democratic movements in the area.
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OF COURSE we're targeting the Taliban! They were stupid enough to challange us at a time of national fury. They presented themselves to Bush on the chopping block of revenge. What President wouldn't kick them in the balls.
Well, "WE" don't have to take sides just because "WE" are trying to get the military out of the way to do what "WE" are trying to do. (Maybe "WE" can at least win the World Series or the Super Bowl, right?)
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Gee whiz, Gorgo. In the interests of true peace, let's route all U.S. mail through the U.N. post office and let THOSE poor bastards sort the letters with bare hands.
That's quite a sense of humor you have there.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2001 : 08:58:08 [Permalink]
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Barf if that helps you think. (0: Not sure what your point is here.
Why thank you, Gorgo. It was either that or an enima.  I'll sum up further down the post.
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Well, I'm not sure of your opinion of bugs, but hopefully it's pretty good, because this tells me about how you think of yourself.
What's that? Psychology 101? Let's not go down that path, shall we?
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You can almost bet that the U.S. won't be supporting any real democratic movements in the area.
Whatever comes of this tiff will have to be resolved by the Afghanis themselves. The various warring factions will have nothing to do with an "imposed" solution by the Infidels. Powell will have his hands full. Something on the order of shuttle diplomacy between Turkey, Iran and Pakistan. And let's not forget dear ol' Mohammed Zahir Shah, the deposed king of Afghanistan. The old geezer may be of some use in a post-Taliban sort-of-democratic-tribal-autonomous something or other.
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Gee whiz, Gorgo. In the interests of true peace, let's route all U.S. mail through the U.N. post office and let THOSE poor bastards sort the letters with bare hands.
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That's quite a sense of humor you have there.
Thanks again, Gorgo.  A little black humor to brighten your day.
(:raig |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2001 : 09:57:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
What's that? Psychology 101? Let's not go down that path, shall we?
Well, if people is bugs, and Mespo_Man is people, then...
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Whatever comes of this tiff will have to be resolved by the Afghanis themselves. The various warring factions will have nothing to do with an "imposed" solution by the Infidels. Powell will have his hands full. Something on the order of shuttle diplomacy between Turkey, Iran and Pakistan. And let's not forget dear ol' Mohammed Zahir Shah, the deposed king of Afghanistan. The old geezer may be of some use in a post-Taliban sort-of-democratic-tribal-autonomous something or other.
It all remains to be seen, I guess.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 04:05:57 [Permalink]
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http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1016-01.htm
'The charge of "anti-Americanism" is itself profoundly anti-American. If the US does not stand for freedom of thought and speech, for diversity and dissent, then we have been deceived as to the nature of the national project. Were the founding fathers to congregate today to discuss the principles enshrined in their declaration of independence, they would be denounced as "anti-American" and investigated as potential terrorists.
Anti-American means today precisely what un-American meant in the 1950s. It is an instrument of dismissal, a means of excluding your critics from rational discourse.
Under the new McCarthyism, this dismissal extends to anyone who seeks to promulgate a version of events other than that sanctioned by the US government. On September 20, President Bush told us that "this is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom". Two weeks later, his secretary of state, Colin Powell, met the Emir of Qatar to request that progress, pluralism, tolerance and freedom be suppressed. Al-Jazeera is one of the few independent television stations in the Middle East, whose popularity is the result of its uncommon regard for freedom of speech. It is also the only station permitted to operate freely in Kabul. Powell's request that it be squashed was a pre-emptive strike against freedom, which, he hoped, would prevent the world from seeing what was really happening once the bombing began.'
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 04:25:48 [Permalink]
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Well, at least we know that both Bin Laden, and the Author of this Article, have at least One Thing, in Common, with the guy who puts his Dick into Peanut Butter.
They're all Fucking Nuts!
Seriously though, the truth can almost always, be found in between the Extremes. It is the Job, therefore, of clear thinking People, to find it. Or, as J. Micheal Straczynski's Characters put it, so eloquently, in Babylon 5, "We stand between the Candle and the Darkness. We are Grey."
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 05:04:19 [Permalink]
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We've come to the day where reasonable dissent is an "extreme," and those who criticize criminal behavior are "Anti-American."
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Well, at least we know that both Bin Laden, and the Author of this Article, have at least One Thing, in Common, with the guy who puts his Dick into Peanut Butter.
They're all Fucking Nuts!
Seriously though, the truth can almost always, be found in between the Extremes. It is the Job, therefore, of clear thinking People, to find it. Or, as J. Micheal Straczynski's Characters put it, so eloquently, in Babylon 5, "We stand between the Candle and the Darkness. We are Grey."
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 05:10:01 [Permalink]
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Not Reasonable Dissent.
It's Unreasonable Blame Casting.
Seriously, he implies the US Government is responsible for the Anthrax Scare. Claiming that, is not only stupid, it's downright Irresponsible. Furthermore, I have never used, the term Anti-American, nor Condoned it's use. That would also, be Irresponsible.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 05:26:02 [Permalink]
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Well, he doesn't blame the government, but rather says to include in our skepticism those that would benefit from such a thing. Even the government is not jumping to the conclusion that this was bin-Laden.
However, I agree that the way it is written could be taken to mean that he thinks the government did it which is ridiculous and if not irresponsible at least sloppy.
The fact that government officials are not trustworthy do not help the discussion at all.
You have not used the term, but others here have.
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Not Reasonable Dissent.
It's Unreasonable Blame Casting.
Seriously, he implies the US Government is responsible for the Anthrax Scare. Claiming that, is not only stupid, it's downright Irresponsible. Furthermore, I have never used, the term Anti-American, nor Condoned it's use. That would also, be Irresponsible.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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